When Does Breastfeeding Stop "Sucking" ?

[Gataloca]

You can do whatever you want, but there will always be some people would would make you feel guilty for your decision. My baby is almost 9 month old now, and I am still breastfeeding him. I had lost of problem in the beginning, and like many people, had engorgement, thrush, mastitis, etc. In addition to that, my baby wasn't gaining lot of weight, and together with the eczema problem, even the pediatrician was telling me to switch to formula.

My mom (who never breastfed us) would make a comment like "Are you still breastfeeding???!! Give him formula!" each time she sees or talks to me. When my baby was younger and would cry at night, she would just assume that he is hungry because I don't have enough milk, or because my milk was not nutritious enough for the baby. (And mostly because she knows people whose babies are fed on formula, so she assume that formula is the best)

Even my husband suggested in several occasion that we should switch to formula, just to see if the skin condition of the baby would improve..

... after 9 month, breastfeeding still sucks, but due to different reasons.. Like my baby now would bite me and hurt me so much, but I still don't want to give up. Probably I am stubborn, but I do like the closeness and the bonding....

 

[jane01]

It never stops sucking, literally. I did not enjoy breastfeeding either of my children and only persevered because it was best for them. I hate sitting down doing 'nothing' - I like to be busy all the time. I'm very impatient. I lasted 12 months with the first and 8 with the second. So glad I never have to do that again !

 

[FutureHKmom]

With my first I think I was quite lucky - I actually don't think I had any huge issues in the beginning (maybe a little pain the week or two) - other than always worrying about supply. I am one of those mothers that has just enough - and sometimes possibly not enough. Sometimes I would have a blocked duct, but that issue would be resolved with some continuous feeding. However, after I passed the six month mark - I started to have more issues. I had serious nipple pain for a few weeks and never quite figured out what it was - could be the beginning of a yeast infection as my lactation consultant told me. After I applied the cream she gave me, it got better. I ended up BFing until he was 11 months and only stopped because I was too sick with morning sickness with my second baby to continue. Though I didn't have too many issues with BFing - I still introduced a bottle of top up formula at night starting when my son was 2 months old to help him sleep through the night.

With my second one now, who will turn six months at the end of the week, I had horrible nipple pain for the first month or so. It was really bad and I went to see the lactation consultant a few times - but after the first month, things resolved itself and I've had no issues since then. Well, one little issue - my daughter was gaining weight really REALLY slowly. Mostly because she didn't really like to eat so only spent very short periods of time on the breast and didn't feed that many times each day. In fact, very early on she already started sleeping through the night and I had to wake her up to feed her! Anyways, because her weight gain was so slow, I put her on a higher calorie formula once a day when she turned 4 months (it is a special formula recommended by my pediatrician) so that her weight gain would catch up. I'm hoping to BF her until she turned one.

 

[Papaya]

Good to see this discussion. I also had a very hard time with breastfeeding for a long long time. I tried so hard that the pressure on me made me loose my sanity and the first few months were really traumatic. We lasted two years and yes things got better on the whole and there were some wonderful moments, but it was never truely trouble free, and weaning was another challange.

I think 8 weeks is more than long enough for a 2nd child. With a first child you can afford to spend all your engery and then some on breastfeeding, but with number 2 you need to think of the interests of the whole family including the 1st child.

 

[Lali07]

I know I will cop a lot of flak for this, but I get a little frustrated and saddened with all this breastfeeding is too hard talk. What do the mothers in areas where formula is not readily available do? What did mothers do before formula was invented?

This post is *not* intended for mothers with special needs babies, or mothers who have to return to work, or mothers who have genuine physiological problems (only about 1.5%).

Your breasts are capable of producing enough milk to feed twins, so of course you can produce enough for a singleton.

If you interfere too much i.e. pumping so you can skip later, pumping so daddy can feed, supplementing with formula etc then of course you will have supply problems, and probably mastitis.

If you do as nature intended, which is to feed your baby only breast milk, on demand, then it is unlikely you will have supply problems. If you "don't have enough milk" which is something I hear a lot of in HK, then do something about it. This may mean offering your baby the breast very regularly until your supply increases, which will probably take a few days. Introducing a bottle or formula will only reduce your supply further. Bottle feeding can also cause breast-refusal, because your baby has to work harder to suck at the breast than the bottle.

There is a lot of support available, through the LLL, or lactation consultants, who can help with sore, cracked nipples etc. This is often due to attachment (latch) problems, or simply because your baby's mouth is little.

There are countless benefits of breast milk, such as increased immunity, fewer digestive problems, so it is a shame when babies miss out on this for preventable reasons. Why feed your baby highly refined, artificial baby milk (usually from another animal - a cow) when you can feed him or her a highly digestible, compatible substance such as your own milk?

One of the main reasons breastfeeding goes wrong in HK is inappropriate advice from health professionals who you would assume know a thing or two about breastfeeding. I have found this is not the case. At a routine health check, with no reasons or indications, my GP suggested I give a bottle of formula at night! WHY!? was my response..

Another reason is separation of mother and baby. If you find yourself in this situation, then start pumping! Even if your baby is in the NICU after the birth, you can still breastfeed. Get a pump, and pump regularly to ensure your milk comes in, so when your baby is discharged you can try to establish feeding.

If you have a C-section, you can still breastfeed. Two main factors are crucial in the establishment of milk supply (or your milk 'coming-in'): the separation of the placenta, and sucking at the breast.

If you choose to have your baby in the nursery so you can get some rest, then you can expect problems with your milk coming in, and because your baby is likely to be bottle fed in the nursery, likewise you can expect some breast-refusal, nipple confusion and latch problems..

Anyhow, I am sure I will cop some flak for this, but someone needs to say. Breastfeeding rates continue to decline worldwide, which is a sad fact. Health problems are on the rise, and some would say these two are linked....

Good luck mummies, I hope you can get the help you need, and enjoy this wonderful act with your baby

 

[genkimom]

Lali,

You truly speak like a person who has had very little experience in this area. Congratulations. Your time breastfeeding your child was textbook perfect and you just can't understand why anyone would have a problem... I am so happy for you but saddened that your inexperience has rendered you unable to feel empathy or concern for people who may read this and feel abused and attacked by your thoughtless comments.

I am saddened by people who refuse to really listen to mothers who have had to give up breastfeeding, and instead blame them for not trying hard enough, or making bad decisions, or being weak or the like.

My son and I had a very rough start, the details of which are unimportant. I went to about four specialists, and nothing seemed to make anything better. After four or five months, my breasts completely stopped producing milk, and after trying several remedies unsuccessfully, the lactation specialist herself, who had been through everything with me for four months, and was a die-hard lactivist, threw in the towel and advised me to make peace with switching to the bottle, which was a hard thing for me to do. I felt like a failure. I couldn't do the one thing all female mammals can do. And because my son was allergic to dairy, I had to give soy, which is an even more inferior a product than milk-based formula. I felt no better than those horrible people who feed their infants Mc Donald's fries and hamburgers; that was how inferior I felt formula to be. But I had to do what needed to be done to feed my child.

I wondered about what women in my case did before formula, so I did some research. And I learned in the past, they hired wet nurses add to their supply, or in tribal areas, all the women shared their milk and babies breastfed from whomever was closest, and so if one had a low supply, they just went to another woman in the tribe. Mountain communities in isolated areas used sheep or goats milk. So you see, women have always found a way to nourish their baby if their baby couldn't drink their milk, for whatever reason. It may be a modern trend to go directly to formula from birth, but life-threatening breastfeeding problems it is certainly not a modern problem.

But since you prefer to blame and accuse rather than think and consider alternative points of view, this may be a wasted post on you, but I hope someone else reads this and can feel less battered after reading your post about how sad and pathetic it is that not all of us can have to textbook perfect breastfeeding experience you had.

 

[Lali07]

Genkimom,

I expected this kind of flak and will probably get more of it, because it is a sensitive subject, and those who don't breastfeed get very defensive. If you have a genuine reason (physical, emotional or circumstantial) then there is no need to defend your decision is there? Its simply the way it is.

My post was intended more to highlight very common, preventable problems, which in HK often results in stopping breastfeeding unnecessarily. Breastfeeding is highly misunderstood, even by health professionals, and no-one would say that the worldwide decline in breastfeeding is a good thing! I think my post was quite factual, if there are particular points you wish to dispute, feel free to do so.

You can call me inexperienced if you want, but really you know very little about me, my background or my start to breastfeeding. I actually know a reasonable amount about breastfeeding, which did help me to establish breastfeeding my son without major problems. It was not textbook, I worked very hard at it, got no sleep initially, but that goes with the territory doesn't it? You can PM me if you want to know more about my background.

I do have empathy for those who tried, but it doesn't ease my frustration at the many more who would have been able to continue if they had the right help / information, which is hard to come by in HK.

Your post is quite aggressive which I think is unnecessary, considering if you go back and read my post, most of the 'blame' is aimed at the health system and health professionals.

Cheers,

Lali

 

[nicolejoy]

Yes this subject can be emotionally charged - and I can see both sides of the picture. Like Lali said, HK society is NOT very "breastfeeding friendly" or even "breastfeeding SMART" and I have personally witnessed friends who say they want to breastfeed but they have gotten some really bad advice about it - then they have to wean because they didn't have enough milk - which may be true but if they didn't have the bad advice to start with, it may not have been a problem.

There ARE times that people really CANNOT nurse as well for whatever reason, and they need to feel supported to do what they need to do (which is usually giving formula) rather than being condemned by "lactivists". I also know many women who are in this category, often by no fault of their own. Some pump instead, others choose to give formula. It is interesting that this is NOT a new problem - and there were ways to deal with it back in the "olden days". Sadly though, I think many babies who had difficulty feeding may not have survived as well back then though...

I do think that Lali's point was that HK society creates breastfeeding problems through a series of bad advice and policies when many of the mothers, if they had been given the RIGHT advice, would have had no physical problems breastfeeding. And as a mother who was unable to breastfeed my 2nd daughter, I take no offense to it

 

[Lali07]

Thanks Nicole, I think you read my post as it was intended. Yes HK society creates a lot of needless breastfeeding problems, and many mothers and babies suffer because they wanted to but got bad advice. I was thinking of you today as I love to follow your blog, Maddy is just a treasure!

Of course there are mothers who cannot (physiologically, emotionally, circumstantially) and some babies who cannot (perhaps like Maddy). My post was not aimed at these families.

The statistics estimate mother/baby physiological reasons between 1.5-3%. So what I can't understand is why some estimates for formula feeding are around 50%? It doesn't add up.

Yes I am a lactivist, but I am also a reasonable person and not a fool, so I can see in some cases it genuinely doesn't work out. But I do wish society would try harder to encourage breastfeeding where possible!

Good luck mummies and babies

 

[thanka2]

I know I will cop a lot of flak for this, but I get a little frustrated and saddened with all this breastfeeding is too hard talk. What do the mothers in areas where formula is not readily available do? What did mothers do before formula was invented?

This post is *not* intended for mothers with special needs babies, or mothers who have to return to work, or mothers who have genuine physiological problems (only about 1.5%).

Your breasts are capable of producing enough milk to feed twins, so of course you can produce enough for a singleton.

If you interfere too much i.e. pumping so you can skip later, pumping so daddy can feed, supplementing with formula etc then of course you will have supply problems, and probably mastitis.

If you do as nature intended, which is to feed your baby only breast milk, on demand, then it is unlikely you will have supply problems. If you "don't have enough milk" which is something I hear a lot of in HK, then do something about it. This may mean offering your baby the breast very regularly until your supply increases, which will probably take a few days. Introducing a bottle or formula will only reduce your supply further. Bottle feeding can also cause breast-refusal, because your baby has to work harder to suck at the breast than the bottle.

There is a lot of support available, through the LLL, or lactation consultants, who can help with sore, cracked nipples etc. This is often due to attachment (latch) problems, or simply because your baby's mouth is little.

There are countless benefits of breast milk, such as increased immunity, fewer digestive problems, so it is a shame when babies miss out on this for preventable reasons. Why feed your baby highly refined, artificial baby milk (usually from another animal - a cow) when you can feed him or her a highly digestible, compatible substance such as your own milk?

One of the main reasons breastfeeding goes wrong in HK is inappropriate advice from health professionals who you would assume know a thing or two about breastfeeding. I have found this is not the case. At a routine health check, with no reasons or indications, my GP suggested I give a bottle of formula at night! WHY!? was my response..

Another reason is separation of mother and baby. If you find yourself in this situation, then start pumping! Even if your baby is in the NICU after the birth, you can still breastfeed. Get a pump, and pump regularly to ensure your milk comes in, so when your baby is discharged you can try to establish feeding.

If you have a C-section, you can still breastfeed. Two main factors are crucial in the establishment of milk supply (or your milk 'coming-in'): the separation of the placenta, and sucking at the breast.

If you choose to have your baby in the nursery so you can get some rest, then you can expect problems with your milk coming in, and because your baby is likely to be bottle fed in the nursery, likewise you can expect some breast-refusal, nipple confusion and latch problems..

Anyhow, I am sure I will cop some flak for this, but someone needs to say. Breastfeeding rates continue to decline worldwide, which is a sad fact. Health problems are on the rise, and some would say these two are linked....

Good luck mummies, I hope you can get the help you need, and enjoy this wonderful act with your baby

I think you had a lot of good things to say but it also seems that your attitude is a bit hard to handle (or at least the way it comes off here--and again, this is a forum where things can be misinterpreted). I have to say that in my case, I did everything I possibly could and went to many professionals (not here in HK but in the States and they were all top-notch) to try to work through my problems and I worked tirelessly for six months and kept with it for six months and breastfeeding was a horrible, dismal failure in my opinion. Yeah, maybe I can put that "badge" on my diaper bag that says I gave my child breastmilk but I lost so much because of that. Instead of bonding with my child I associated him with extreme pain and discomfort because of all the problems involved in his feeding so breastfeeding was counter-productive for our relationship and those are 6 months I will never have again with my child--a precious six months where I could have fed him that "highly refined, artificial baby milk" (which later he did very well with and never experienced an illness his first year of life) and got busy making positive memories with him. Instead, that time in my life is so painful that I barely remember it--it's like just a blur--and not in a good way. And I felt under pressure from comments like the one you posted above where you basically told us who has a "valid excuse" and who doesn't for not breastfeeding. Yes, I am a good mother who wanted her child to be breastfed and have the best nutrition out there but I'm also not superwoman.

So, before you come down hard on all the "sissy moms" (my words, not yours) who don't have enough of whatever to breastfeed, please consider that for some (like me) this is a huge, emotional topic and comments like yours come off as more judgmental than actually helpful (although, I don't disagree with most points you made--this isn't my first rodeo--I went through breastfeeding hell and I'm quite well-educated on the subject).