Lying Domestic Helpers
- Thread starter lantau35
- Start date
my previous helper lied about the smallest things like these posts are about. and it escalated as the contract time went by.. she lied about all those they mentioned here & a tat more. and then it went to a point where i couldn't trust her with my kid anymore. that was the time i decided i had to let her go.
i know it's not fair to generalise any culture, but i have an uncle who used to own & run a garment factory in the filipines for more than 10 years, so he had a lot of experience with filipino ppl, educated or not, etc. i quote him, "those filipinos are all son of b*tches. b*stards and none of them can be trusted. it's their culture to lie & i finally had enough of them, so i moved my factory to another country". mind you, this uncle is usually very well-mannered & i have never heard him say a mean word or swear word, but he did use a very foul word to describe them.
however, there are good ones. i live with my in-laws & my mil had been hiring filipino helpers for more than 20years. she's had some bad experience with stealing, & lying. but the current 2 are good, specially the older one, who's 40+. she knows her position & she always say, "i don't care what other ppl do or say, i'm here to earn money, and i want to work in a happy environment."
so i think it depends on the person you hire.
i know it's not fair to generalise any culture, but i have an uncle who used to own & run a garment factory in the filipines for more than 10 years, so he had a lot of experience with filipino ppl, educated or not, etc. i quote him, "those filipinos are all son of b*tches. b*stards and none of them can be trusted. it's their culture to lie & i finally had enough of them, so i moved my factory to another country". mind you, this uncle is usually very well-mannered & i have never heard him say a mean word or swear word, but he did use a very foul word to describe them.
however, there are good ones. i live with my in-laws & my mil had been hiring filipino helpers for more than 20years. she's had some bad experience with stealing, & lying. but the current 2 are good, specially the older one, who's 40+. she knows her position & she always say, "i don't care what other ppl do or say, i'm here to earn money, and i want to work in a happy environment."
so i think it depends on the person you hire.
HappyV, I don't think it's a question of demonising, just of being prepared for situations. When we first moved to HK, we heard the most AMAZING stories of indispensible DHs. I admit that many of them had come from people who lived in HK a while back, and had Chinese Amahs, but every story made me think that I was winning the lottery by having the opportunity to employ one of these incredible helpers! So, I guess my expectations were too high. I was knocked for six when I employed our first helper - by her laziness, scheming etc. We had tried to do everything to make her feel valued (offering proper bedroom, 2 flights and 5 weeks paid leave a year, Sat and Sun off etc. etc).
With my second, having read and heard so many horror stories, I was MUCH better prepared and had more realistic expectations. That is why I try not to let the fibbing bother me like I said, it is information volunteered by her and does not affect our family in any meaningful way. It does not mean that I understand why she does it, or that I like it.
Most of us have employed people before, but usually in an office environment etc. Having an employee in your home is whole different scenario, and something to which I am still adjusting 18 months on. Without forums like this, I would not be able to put my 'helper issues' into perspective. I don't think that any of us are claiming to be perfect employers, and we are all aware that there is abuse out there. We are however, trying to manage our individual situations as well as possible and sometime sit is better to vent on an anonymous forum than at the helper. The majority of people are using these forums as a way to learn to become better employers. If someone's else's horror story gives me better perspective, then their 'demonising' has served a constructive purpose.
With my second, having read and heard so many horror stories, I was MUCH better prepared and had more realistic expectations. That is why I try not to let the fibbing bother me like I said, it is information volunteered by her and does not affect our family in any meaningful way. It does not mean that I understand why she does it, or that I like it.
Most of us have employed people before, but usually in an office environment etc. Having an employee in your home is whole different scenario, and something to which I am still adjusting 18 months on. Without forums like this, I would not be able to put my 'helper issues' into perspective. I don't think that any of us are claiming to be perfect employers, and we are all aware that there is abuse out there. We are however, trying to manage our individual situations as well as possible and sometime sit is better to vent on an anonymous forum than at the helper. The majority of people are using these forums as a way to learn to become better employers. If someone's else's horror story gives me better perspective, then their 'demonising' has served a constructive purpose.
You're missing the point. 'Demonising' does not serve to illustrate, only confabulate.
I agree that you need to be aware and prepared - but having a thread like this is just another opportunity for employers to point out just how superior they are to their DH - and to further propogate the underlying assumptions about value, worth, money which lead to so much abuse (of the system).
It's all about justifying what is, for many HK employers, effectively slave labour. (ie. 24/7 service)
I agree that you need to be aware and prepared - but having a thread like this is just another opportunity for employers to point out just how superior they are to their DH - and to further propogate the underlying assumptions about value, worth, money which lead to so much abuse (of the system).
It's all about justifying what is, for many HK employers, effectively slave labour. (ie. 24/7 service)
Konradsmom
Registered User
I actually don't see how this brings in the conclusion that this thread is another way to make employers/us look/appear superior. If at all, I just learnt that fibbing happens and I should not be suprised if it happens again and learn to deal with it.
Again whether DH is employed as slave labour is not relevant to this argument. Or is someone saying that because SH are subject to slavery" and therefore dishonesty is justified? It sounds a little like that to me.
Again whether DH is employed as slave labour is not relevant to this argument. Or is someone saying that because SH are subject to slavery" and therefore dishonesty is justified? It sounds a little like that to me.
IHappyV - I don't think it is a thread about how superior employers are and I don't think its fair to bring in extreme ideas like "slave labour" (taking an argument to an extreme does have its validities, but also runs the risk of reducing the credibility of several valid points you may have to offer).
If you look at the business forums GeoExpat, you'll see that several members there discuss employer and employee relationships - issues like "do local employees work intelligently", "how do I verify expense reports", "are my employees ripping me off on sick leave" etc.
These discussions at a hypothetical level are similar to the discussions about domestic helpers.
It is important that we maintain open discussions. I am of the belief that outside of a fringe group that does not get the point of these discussions, they serve to educate many DH employers about issues that are faced when they hire their first DH.
Imagine if you were buying a business for the first time... imagine if you had a forum that told you about all the different ways in which owners might pad their numbers and try to get the extra dollar from you.
I do suggest to start looking at these discussions with an open mind.
If and when you think that a law is broken, feel free to drop us a note.. and drop the various govt departments a line too. We (the folks who own geobaby / geoexpat and I suspect the members on these sites) are firm believers that employee abuse has no place in the work place.. no matter where it is.
If you look at the business forums GeoExpat, you'll see that several members there discuss employer and employee relationships - issues like "do local employees work intelligently", "how do I verify expense reports", "are my employees ripping me off on sick leave" etc.
These discussions at a hypothetical level are similar to the discussions about domestic helpers.
It is important that we maintain open discussions. I am of the belief that outside of a fringe group that does not get the point of these discussions, they serve to educate many DH employers about issues that are faced when they hire their first DH.
Imagine if you were buying a business for the first time... imagine if you had a forum that told you about all the different ways in which owners might pad their numbers and try to get the extra dollar from you.
I do suggest to start looking at these discussions with an open mind.
If and when you think that a law is broken, feel free to drop us a note.. and drop the various govt departments a line too. We (the folks who own geobaby / geoexpat and I suspect the members on these sites) are firm believers that employee abuse has no place in the work place.. no matter where it is.
Shri,
Wouldn;t it be nice if administrators could drop in like this when someone posts (as they did not too long ago) about how they expect their heloer to be on duty 7 days a week so that they can sleep in? Where was Geobaby's official comment then?
I'm not breaking any laws: I have just suggested that the general contiuum of behaviour of HK employers in relation to their expectations of their DH, tends towards one end of morality.
I know that sometimes I come across as an extremist, but I do feel that (especially for 1st time employers and Mums) Geobaby tends to paint a very employer heavy version of events: probably inevitable, but I feel it is important for employers to be continually reminded that they are employing humans, not machines, who quite often work longer hours than their employers, and (I would argue) have a MUCH more important job. (Whatever the $$)
Wouldn;t it be nice if administrators could drop in like this when someone posts (as they did not too long ago) about how they expect their heloer to be on duty 7 days a week so that they can sleep in? Where was Geobaby's official comment then?
I'm not breaking any laws: I have just suggested that the general contiuum of behaviour of HK employers in relation to their expectations of their DH, tends towards one end of morality.
I know that sometimes I come across as an extremist, but I do feel that (especially for 1st time employers and Mums) Geobaby tends to paint a very employer heavy version of events: probably inevitable, but I feel it is important for employers to be continually reminded that they are employing humans, not machines, who quite often work longer hours than their employers, and (I would argue) have a MUCH more important job. (Whatever the $$)
HappyV, I don't think I'm missing the point at all. Nobody here was suggesting that helpers should work 24/7, it was simply a question about how to deal with a lying helper.
Yes, there was another thread last week, basically looking for a helper who would work 7 days a week so that she and her husband would not have to do any parenting. There was 100% revulsion in the response from other posters/employers - pointing out that she made the choice to have children, not the helper, and that nobody can work 24/7 in any job etc. etc.
Yes, there was another thread last week, basically looking for a helper who would work 7 days a week so that she and her husband would not have to do any parenting. There was 100% revulsion in the response from other posters/employers - pointing out that she made the choice to have children, not the helper, and that nobody can work 24/7 in any job etc. etc.