GSIS and Ma On Shan

[parent]

Hi All,
Please see again the stack of papers, the school is telling us again that "...the board does not require members' approval..."and "the decision on the MOS move is within the ambit of the board's power.." I felt that the decision is made and there will be no surprise tm. The meaning of showing up and make the vote is to show the EDB and the rest of the HK community how GSIS runs a school without the support of the school community. And, the more that put things in writing, the more this move seems unwise.
We only gain 14% of the space with 399 billion and 4 years of bus riding to MOS. What good does this help us to be competitive? When most HK parents knows how GSIS runs. The downside of not moving is downsizing only "the ENGLISH STREAM" and splitting the school. Isn't these are being forced to us already?? Moving to Tin Hau, Moving to Pokfulam, moving to MOS. Afterall, we did not sign up for these when I first come to this school. One very ture point is most important is the quality of the teaching and not a nice cafe. If the school use the money offer better package to good teachers, I bet this will be easily let the school stay competitive.

 

[happyhour]

parent,

You are right, having a nice cafe isn't important. What is important is the quality of teaching as well as having the right facilities available (such as classrooms, laboratories and libraries etc.) which will help the teaching. But to say that "we will only gain 14% of the space with 399 billion and 4 years of bus riding to MOS" is not really presenting the full picture. The school documents actually said that apart from gaining 30,366 sq. ft. of new space in the Peak Campus (which represents a gain of 14%), 37% of the existing spaces will be refurbished and the remaining 63% will be gutted and internally reconstructed. Furthermore, 4 years of bus ride to MOS applies to Y3 and not to everybody.

I also disagree with your view that "the meaning of showing up and make the vote is to show the EDB and the rest of the HK community how GSIS runs a school without the support of the school community." If you care to look at the Information Pack sent by the requisitionists, you will see that they are citing statutes and case law to support their view that the vote will be binding on the Association. They also said lawyers within the requisitionist group aggressively dispute the Board's right to ignore any resolution passed in the EGM. It's clear that they have already taken legal advice on the matter. If the Board doesn't follow the resolution, there is nothing to stop the requisitionists from taking legal action. So I don't think Friday's EGM is merely a gesture. It could have legal implication and everyone must attend.

 

[genome]

Happy hour I am not sure you can make the kind of sweeping statement that the requisitioners have sought legal advice in that I am sure that there are parents who are lawyers just as there are parents who are doctors, accountants, business people and bankers to name just a few.

There is one thing that I am curious about and that is the funding which wether we like it or not has to be part of the discussion. The school states that the balance sheet is 300mm HKD. Which is exactly the same level as stated in October 2008. Which is strange considering everything we have seen over the last six months in the financial markets.The balance sheet is made up of 50% cash which is fine no change in value there. 106mm in bonds are they really still worth 106mm? I would guess not on todays mark to market level especailly if some of these bonds are unlisted bonds. You could argue that you are going to hold them to maturity but then again at maturity how many of the firms will be around especially in this climate? Then there is the 42 million in fixed assets I take it that we will not be selling the furniture to fund the rebuild?


The numbers to me just do not seem to add up? Especially if you take in to account the possible drain on reserves of people wanting their debentures back due to taking up other spaces because of MOS and the number of people permanetly leaving as opposed to sars when they kept the school places but just moved the children.

Can someone please enlighten me as to how this is all going to add up or are we going to commercailise the school and say for x amount you can have your name on the cafeteria or for y we will name the library after you and for Z we will name the science building after you?

 

[parent]

Do we need to bring anything to the EGM to vote??

 

[happyhour]

genome,

You are right. It's just that the requisitionists too went to great lengths to prepare their Information Pack. It shows that they are taking this matter very seriously. I doubt if they ever regard it as a mere gesture and I don't expect them to give up so easily. The same can be said about the Board.

Happy hour I am not sure you can make the kind of sweeping statement that the requisitioners have sought legal advice in that I am sure that there are parents who are lawyers just as there are parents who are doctors, accountants, business people and bankers to name just a few

 

[happyhour]

genome,

Could it be that this is the reason why they have committed to Phase 2 only at this moment? Phase 2 will cost $112M and I understand it's going to take 2 years to complete it. They are saying they will assess and decide on the feasibility of undertaking Phases 3 and 4 in 2011. It's just a guess on my part though.

There is one thing that I am curious about and that is the funding which wether we like it or not has to be part of the discussion. The school states that the balance sheet is 300mm HKD. Which is exactly the same level as stated in October 2008. Which is strange considering everything we have seen over the last six months in the financial markets.The balance sheet is made up of 50% cash which is fine no change in value there. 106mm in bonds are they really still worth 106mm? I would guess not on todays mark to market level especailly if some of these bonds are unlisted bonds. You could argue that you are going to hold them to maturity but then again at maturity how many of the firms will be around especially in this climate? Then there is the 42 million in fixed assets I take it that we will not be selling the furniture to fund the rebuild?


The numbers to me just do not seem to add up? Especially if you take in to account the possible drain on reserves of people wanting their debentures back due to taking up other spaces because of MOS and the number of people permanetly leaving as opposed to sars when they kept the school places but just moved the children.

 

[genome]

Happy hour even at 112mm HKD it does not add up you have 300mm of which half is cash so 150mm leaving you wth 106 in bonds and lets say we mark them at 15% less due to market conditions so 90mm and the 42mm in fixed assets which I take they are not going to sell for cash to use on the rebuild. So that means you have 150mm cash plus 90mm of bonds for total of 240mm and the build is 112mm or 47% of your assets does this make sense? This does not take in to account any cost overuns and we all know they occur or the withdrawl of funds from parents leaving.

Re the transport please see interesting comparison between commuting times for adults in the united states (survey completed March 09) and the journey time for primary students at GSIS.

Hong Kong Island <-> Ma On Shan
Morning 55 - 65 minutes
Afternoon 65 - 70 minutes*
Discovery Bay Pier No 3 <->Ma On Shan
Morning 35 minutes
Afternoon 40 minutes
Discovery Bay <-> Ma On Shan (Direct)
Morning 40 - 45 minutes
Afternoon 40 - 45 minutes

Average Commute Time (in minutes) by City - People in USA Major MetroAreas (United States)

New York 43.22 min
Houston 29.32
Chicago 35.70
Los Angeles 31.07min
Atlanta 30.26
Dallas 27.33
Seattle 26.32

So as you can see the school is telling us that we must make our young children travel for longer than a full grown adult travels to work in America.

 

[genome]

Happy hour you raise an interesting point re the board and the requisitoners both not giving up so easily. The difference is that the requisitioners have the choice of leaving a situation created by the board by going to anohter school whereas the board will have to live with the consequences brought on by their decisions.

 

[happyhour]

genome,

As I said, you must have some kind of trust on the Board and the management. If you doubt their every move, it just won't work. Let me give you an example. If you have no confidence whatsoever in them, wouldn't you be worried that they might put all the money into Madoff's fund or invest in bonds that may go down to zero in value. There are all kinds of possibilities. That's why I said, if you don't trust them, the thing to do is to become one of them ie. to try to get into the Board to safeguard your interests as well as ours.

I hope you will forgive me for saying that comparison between commuting times for adults in the united states and the journey time for primary students at GSIS is not really relevant. Every country or even district is different. I mentioned before that there are many kids travelling across the border everyday from China in order to go to school in HK. We always hear that there are many kids in China who would walk for hours everyday in order to go to a primitive school. The only difference is that they are worrying about getting an education whilst we are worrying about the traveling time during the redevelopment period. Are we that bad if we compare with them?

Happy hour even at 112mm HKD it does not add up you have 300mm of which half is cash so 150mm leaving you wth 106 in bonds and lets say we mark them at 15% less due to market conditions so 90mm and the 42mm in fixed assets which I take they are not going to sell for cash to use on the rebuild. So that means you have 150mm cash plus 90mm of bonds for total of 240mm and the build is 112mm or 47% of your assets does this make sense? This does not take in to account any cost overuns and we all know they occur or the withdrawl of funds from parents leaving.

Re the transport please see interesting comparison between commuting times for adults in the united states (survey completed March 09) and the journey time for primary students at GSIS.

Hong Kong Island <-> Ma On Shan
Morning 55 - 65 minutes
Afternoon 65 - 70 minutes*
Discovery Bay Pier No 3 <->Ma On Shan
Morning 35 minutes
Afternoon 40 minutes
Discovery Bay <-> Ma On Shan (Direct)
Morning 40 - 45 minutes
Afternoon 40 - 45 minutes

Average Commute Time (in minutes) by City - People in USA Major MetroAreas (United States)

New York 43.22 min
Houston 29.32
Chicago 35.70
Los Angeles 31.07min
Atlanta 30.26
Dallas 27.33
Seattle 26.32

So as you can see the school is telling us that we must make our young children travel for longer than a full grown adult travels to work in America.

 

[genome]

Happy hour I hear you re the commuting times and not to be rude but the examples you have given are where people have chosen these times and not had the times forced on them. You have also chosen places where education is still a privelage and not a right. In Hong Kong the education of our children is our right as parents and we have a right and an obligation as parents to be involved in this education and it would be remiss of us just to farm it out to a board without voicing an opinion if something they were doing did not seem right.

You mention trusting the board at this present time I don't. I am worried that they may do something reckless due to the fact that they feel they have no choice and it would be wrong of me as a parent and a member of the GSIS community to allow this to happen without saying anything. They have already closed of the transparency of the vote by asking it to go to ballot. Is this not all about openess and discussion?about parents having the ability to make choices?

It seems to me that if MOS goes ahead you will go along with it I wish you all the best if you decide to do this. I however won't in that I will not be dictated to by a board that has no interest in the views of the parents for whose interests they are meant to be looking out for.