BTEC - Business and Technology Education Council qualifications at ESF

[testuser]

I don't think there is a bias against Canadians. The ESF recruits in a very limited number of British aligned countries. Also if the Canadian and American schools do not have BTEC alternatives for their NA constituents why would you expect the ESF to?

 

[testuser]

About the number of students going to North American schools... isn't that due to the individual students or parents efforts? I don't see anything on the various schools websites that would indicate that the schools provide support for the north American entrance exams.

Could be wrong.

 

[dimsum_mum]

I did not say I expected ESF to provide alternatives to BTEC.

I said there definitely needs to be an alternative to IB, but I was personally concerned that it is a program that is unrecognised in North America.

 

[Boris]

About the number of students going to North American schools... isn't that due to the individual students or parents efforts? I don't see anything on the various schools websites that would indicate that the schools provide support for the north American entrance exams.

Could be wrong.

American Int schools SHOULD and, I have been told from sources that they do, have programs. I can say from personal experience that some others do not. I have been tutoring Math ISEE for some time and now SAT is being requested from referrals. These kids are from Chinese Int school, Island school and Local Non Int schools. All have serious problems with quantitative reasoning.

To be fair, schools can be all things to all people. They don't have the resources and in the population as a whole there is very little need for these niche programs. That's why they're niche. IGCSE was turning into a niche and having done the research I see the reasoning behind the move to IB. If parents agree with that reasoning is another thread no doubt.

 

[Boris]

@Sara(H)
If you want to misspell my name in the same way then it should be Bori.

Stupid? No. Naive? Yes. The course is highly vocational (I have read the curriculum) and UNI search for Highly Academic. Your son is being tutored for Maths A level? I hope he does well and is a very tough ask. What if he only gets a B or C grade? You NEED to get real in what is achievable. VERY few "normal" students are capable of A or B at this level.

Your hearing what YOU want to hear from those you have called and have not looked at the reasonable expectation. "Double Distinction (DD)" ???? IF you son achieves that for the WHOLE course? Awesome!! Akin to getting 5 A* in the estimation of someone WHO HAS a BTEC through Nat Dip to the Higher Nat Dip. HOWEVER if he gets a EXCELLENT result of Distinction / Merit (DM) he will be seriously struggling to get a first time acceptance to UNI. MM - no chance at all. EVEN though its a great result in the exam and a fine achievement, it's going to be because it's such an entry level course and really designed as an qualification in support of a technical right: i.e apprenticeships.

Poly U will accept BTEC? Of course they will. They are a POLYTECHNIC and BTEC is designed for these schools with a heavy vocational bent. HKDSE (the 4 of the 334) suits this model for non academically suited students. If you want a good BEng then you only have to look to HK UST. They have excellent programs and MEng + PhD in the same faculty. Their collaborations with International Academia is top quality. They have the worlds leading civil engineering projects on their doorstep. Have you talked to them? A BTEC National Cert even with DD and an A at A level Maths may not be enough.

Good luck anyway but do plan for realism rather than fantastical. It is the weakness of all Tiger Mothers.

For those looking at BTEC just examine the course and understand if its vocational or academic. Write to BTEC themselves and get a valid assessment. The schools obviously are over egging the pudding if Sara(H) thinks that BTEC gives a right of passage to UNI.

Oh lastly and your husband may ruefully smile at this. In a lifetime, a bricklayer definitely earns more that a regular civil engineer. Life always gives alternatives and not everyone can be Brunel.

 

[Sarah_Lotus]

Your hearing what YOU want to hear from those you have called and have not looked at the reasonable expectation.

I do not think that I’m just hearing what I want to hear without any reasonable expectation. I and my son both know that he needs to get a Double Distinction and at least a B in the maths to get to the university of his choice.

But this is actually not much different to what my elder son needed when he entered with A levels. He needed ABC to get into the university of his choice. Should we have given up because it was too high an expectation?

For an IB student the entry requirement is 37 points with 6 points required in Mathematics and another Science at Higher level. This is also a very high standard – should all IB students give up because the expectation is too high?

If you want a good BEng then you only have to look to HK UST. They have excellent programs and MEng + PhD in the same faculty. Their collaborations with International Academia is top quality. They have the worlds leading civil engineering projects on their doorstep. Have you talked to them?

No I haven’t talked to HKUST. As I mentioned earlier my son is keen to go to England to further his studies. The only reason we went to the open day at the PolyU was because it was being conducted as we were taking a short cut across their campus. It seemed too good an opportunity to miss.

Good luck anyway but do plan for realism rather than fantastical. It is the weakness of all Tiger Mothers.

I find the idea that anyone could think of me as a Tiger Mother very amusing. If this is what you believe me to be it is obvious that my true nature does not come across in my posts.

I try not to push my children in any particular direction but my full support is behind them to manage what they want to achieve. I do not think that going to university is too high an expectation for my children – after all their parents have five degrees – we know that with a bit of intelligence and a lot of hard work most people can manage it.

The schools obviously are over egging the pudding if Sara(H) thinks that BTEC gives a right of passage to UNI.

I never said that BTEC was the best way to get to university for everyone just that it was a better way to get there for my son (and that I liked the fact there was an alternative to IB). He had three options open to him:
1) IB –everyone: teacher, himself and parents, all thought this would be a poor choice for my son.
2) A levels – this involved either doing it with a tutor at home, something my son didn’t like the idea of as he enjoys the social part of school. Or going to boarding school as my elder son did for his sixth form. My son didn’t like this option as he wanted to stay in Hong Kong. (Although if he’d got into the same boarding school as my elder son it would have been a much cheaper option than staying on at an ESF school here – so I was all for him going.)
3) BTEC – this is the option he choose and he seems to be doing very well.

Anyway time will tell. If he gets offers I’ll let you know.

SARAH

 

[Sarah_Lotus]

I said there definitely needs to be an alternative to IB, but I was personally concerned that it is a program that is unrecognised in North America.

My experience of getting children into universities is don’t rely on the schools to help. But rather make sure you double check everything that your child is interested in. And do this before they take their IB or whatever alternative choices.

When I had a child change from the Canadian International School to an English boarding school for his sixth form (Years 12 & 13) I had to provide the current syllabus for the school to check. They then asked for a GCSE in maths and physics on to of the Canadian results. Thus he was tutored in these subjects outside of school during his Year 11.

I had a friend told by the careers teacher that she could do a university course she wanted in biology without chemistry A level but when she started applying to the universities a year later discovered it wasn’t the case. She ended up having to study A levels for three years to get the right qualifications for the course.

Maybe I was just given bad advise at the schools but the I’ve found if you are interested in anything out of the ordinary do your own homework. For example the Canadian International School knew nothing about applying to British universities. All they seemed interested in was getting their pupils into North American Universities (either the USA or Canada). The final straw came for me when the guidance councilor told my daughter that he’d forgotten to send her UCAS application! Fortunately another teacher at the school had remembered and sent it away just in time.

Not only will the schools tell you what they want to be true rather than what is really true but also the university fairs people seem to do the same. I have double checked with the university admissions all the information my son collected from such fairs earlier this year and at least two universities told him things that seem not to be true now!

And if any of your children want to do something a little different, say dance, then don’t even think of relying on the schools because they have no idea at all.

So far three of my children had had to do work outside of school to get into the school/university of their choice. I don’t think this is right. Am I the only one who doesn’t think a school system should rely on tutors? But in the end it doesn’t matter what we believe to be right, we want the best for our children, and so tutors they had. In fact I’m of the opinion that is some cases the tutors do a better job that the school teachers.

SARAH

 

[Boris]

I have said what I have said from experience. You may choose to take it or not. If your son is choosing his own path and chooses that of least resistance then so be it. However - "doing very well" ain't gonna cut it mate. There is a reason why BTEC state a Double Distinction is given for "exemplary performance". Also a Math B at A level is hard, hard work and your parents will need all the experience of those 5 degrees for you to even come close without extensive tutoring having seen that all parties agree you have no place in an academic course. No more Times Square and chat rooms for you!

Finally let me point out a possible misconception you seem to have and others should not assume as true. "and that I liked the fact there was an alternative to IB"
BTEC is not in any way an alternative to IB.

BTEC is designed for 16 and more often later, post secondary. It is vocational in the main with an limited, outside chance at anything but Higher Nat Dip getting a shot at (proper) UNI entrance. This your son can do if he DMs' or MMs' the Nat Cert with another two years study. Edexcel sell courses and their promo materials support that position. Truthful it ain't.

IB is a comprehensive system formed over the whole spectrum of education. Primary, Foundation Secondary and Advanced Secondary for UNI entrance. It is academic in the whole and accepted world wide.

I suspect bricklaying school awaits.

 

[Sarah_Lotus]

I suspect bricklaying school awaits.

You are extremely patronizing when you have absolutely no idea about my son’s abilities. Just because I said that the IB wasn’t suited to him you assume that he isn’t academic. At no point did I say this.

My elder son also wasn’t suited to the IB. Will you also assume that he too isn’t academic enough to get into university? If so you’d be wrong as he is now studying mathematics at Sheffield University.

I have a good understanding of my son’s abilities – as I do of my other children too. I just hope that you have some faith in your own children otherwise they will find it difficult to excel with such a lack of support from home.

SARAH

 

[testuser]

Boris, We know you've recently changed careers and become a tutor, but it does help if you're not rude and patronizing when trying to get your point across.

Lots of parents here have decades worth of experience educating their kids. I'm sure that is more than yours.