BTEC - Business and Technology Education Council qualifications at ESF

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rani

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The ESF is rolling out a menu of 23 applied Business and Technology Education Council qualifications across its five secondary schools in September. We outline what is on offer and how students can mix and match BTEC and IB subjects and take broadening courses to boost their university prospects.

Does anyone have any feedback on BTEC? Have never heard of it before and wondering how it is perceived in the UK?
 
I�m very glad to hear that ESF are offering an alternative to the IB. IB is not for everyone and it is time that the international schools in Hong Kong recognized this.

Both my sons were not suited to studying IB. The elder one we sent to an English boarding school where he took double maths and physics A levels. He is now studying mathematics at Sheffield University.

The younger one has just finished Year 12 studying at West Island School. He is taking a BTEC in engineering (equivalent to 2 A levels) and in Sport Science (equivalent to 1 A level). He is also taking one mathematics IB subject. He is wanting to study civil engineering at university.

Last summer we contacted a number of universities in northern England and asked how they viewed the BTEC in engineering. All of the universities told me that the BTEC which was equivalent to 3 A levels was fine to enter university but they strongly recommended adding mathematics A level if only studying the BTEC equivalent to 2 A levels. I discussed the difference between studying higher mathematics and standard mathematics at IB with the BTEC. Most of the universities had never heard of taking a single IB option (this seems to be an ESF idea). So my son is also studying A level mathematics outside of school with a tutor to make sure he has the qualifications he needs to get to university.

I am not particularly happy that I�ve had to make extra arrangements outside of school as I think the school fees are high enough that I shouldn�t have to do this. However, I had to do the same for my elder son, who took both mathematics and physics at GCSE outside of school in order to qualify to get into sixth form at the boarding school � he was originally at the Canadian International School and their qualifications weren�t considered the equivalent to GCSE in these subjects.

Since that time I�ve been researching BTECs. My daughter who is now 24 and lives in London knows quite a few people who studied BTEC for university entrance.

There are certain subjects where BTEC is it actually preferred. The ones I know of are midwifery, nursing and dance. It is quite common for engineering students to have come up through BTECs at technical colleges rather than A levels at sixth form colleges. One of my sister-in-law�s brothers did this (but in those days it was called Ordinary National Diploma instead of BTEC). When we talked to him about coping at university, rather than getting into university, he told us that his biggest problem was the maths and recommended that my son study A level maths with his BTEC.

If you want to see what sort of qualifications are acceptable to universities in the UK have a look at the UCAS website. You can do a search by subject at UCAS - Course Search and it will give you an idea of what qualifications you need to get into any university for any subject.

e.g. to study civil engineering at Liverpool University you need one of:
  • BBB at A level - including mathematics
  • BTEC National Certificate (12 units) - Acceptable only when combined with other qualifications (i.e. A level mathematics)
  • BTEC National Diploma (18 units) - Pass BTEC National Diploma with grades DDD including D in Level 3 Further Mathematics. Students must attend interview and take Mathematics assessment.
  • International Baccalaureate - Pass International Baccalaureate with 32 overall, including 5 at Higher Level Mathematics and Standard Level English.
I would recommend that students look fully into what is needed to get into the university and course they wish to study. This will make sure that they take the correct options, whether that be BTEC or IB.

I have known too many students rely on the school to advise them and be told the wrong information. These days it is easy to look up what you want on the internet and maybe telephone the university admissions to double check.
 
Thanks Sarah for the detailed reply. It's all so confusing. Am glad we don't have to make any decisions for another few years.

Thx
 
BTEC history and practicality.

The BTEC was / is, in essence, a replacement for the City & Guilds apprenticeship qualification. I studied, sat and passed the first one in the Royal Navy in 1978, having completed a 2 year technical course. I have a Higher Diploma in Mechanical and Marine Engineering from that.

The change came about because of the educational worlds move to the credit module system. C&G was / is an all or nothing exam. For me BTEC worked and I completed my degree course in short time ( 1 year ) because of the credits I had.

For children of normal school age I would suggest it's irrelevant when searching for uni entrance. So the quote you give is quite bizarre. In HK the IB Diploma is being taken up, as you are aware, either as the replacement for the HKDSE or the A level replacement, with some having sat IGCSE in S4 or 5. There seems no cohesive approach in HK at this time to do one thing or another.

The info Sarah posts, although correct does disguise the fact that BTEC is not designed for the traditional school qualification system and would come on the vocational route in the 334. If the student was a late bloomer then they would not be disadvantaged and could easily convert their efforts towards a "traditional" BSc / BA etc. This is what I did as I left school at 15 and went to sea.
 
The info Sarah posts, although correct does disguise the fact that BTEC is not designed for the traditional school qualification system and would come on the vocational route in the 334. If the student was a late bloomer then they would not be disadvantaged and could easily convert their efforts towards a "traditional" BSc / BA etc. This is what I did as I left school at 15 and went to sea.

While I'm sure that if you are a late bloomer the BTEC route will be helpful for you; you can also use it to go to university at age 18. As I said earlier my son is currently studying a 12 unit BTEC in Engineering (equivalent to two A levels) at West Island School and an A level in Mathematics outside of school (because the school doesn’t offer it).

In the last week I have been speaking to a number of university admissions personnel and this is what I’ve discovered about using the BTEC and Maths as an entry qualification to study a BEng or MEng in Civil Engineering:

University - A levels required - BTEC?
Birmingham - AAA - see someone in October
Brunel - BBC - OK
Coventry - BCC - OK
Exeter - ABB - OK but needs DisDisB
Leeds- AAB - see someone in October
Leeds Met - 260 UCAS points - OK
Liverpool - BBB - OK but 18 unit BTEC needs interview - must check if A level maths still needs interview
Manchester - AAB - Needs 18 unit BTEC plus A level Mathematics
Newcastle - AAB - OK
Nottingham - ABB - No BTEC
Salford - 260 UCAS points - OK
Sheffield - AAA - No BTEC
Southampton - AAA - No BTEC

I am hopeful that he will be able to get into a good university (even if some of the best won’t accept the qualifications). I know that others in his class at school are planning on attending university but not to study the same course as my son.

It is my understanding that more and more people are now using the BTEC to get into university in England and that it isn't just for late bloomers now.

SARAH
 
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@ Sara
On one hand you are saying "you can also use it to go to university at age 18" then showing a list of Uni that clearly show its not an automatic shoe in, or, a definite NO. If your satisfied with a BBC or BCC Uni then "that he will be able to get into a good university " looks a bit silly and your better off having him go through a good program here. Unless you have money to burn.

I am also mystified how you can equate 12 BTEC credits to 2 A levels. The information I see here http://www.edexcel.com/migrationdocuments/Family top level/FAQs_BTEC_Retitling.pdf would make 12 nowhere near even a Level 2 Cert and that level is definitely not good enough to get you on a Uni course and is judged as " O level " standard. I would suggest the 21 stated is for a highly academic based course and I could not understand why any HK school would choose that over a much more recognisable IB. After all, the whole purpose of BTEC is to enfranchise those whose vocational skills would do well in being recognised and otherwise would lose out in the IB system.

FYI - Its a long time since I did the BTEC but I got to my Uni course on the back of a Higher Diploma, which was not super intensive on the academic side but far above anything I sat in O levels. Its difficult to equate exactly to the info on the sheet as we didn't have level 2 or 3 as far as I remember.
 
My concern is that BTEC is virtually unrecognised and has no easy equivalent in North America.
I agree with this it is a British qualification and seems only to be known about in Britain.
At the school they are trying to get around this by giving a certificate and calling it the Advanced Diploma - we will have to see if this is successful.

When I joined this discussed I stated “I’m very glad to hear that ESF are offering an alternative to the IB. IB is not for everyone and it is time that the international schools in Hong Kong recognized this.” And I still believe that not everyone can cope with the IB. I’m not saying that ESF shouldn’t offer the IB – just that they should have something else as well.

Now Brois (or should I also misspell your name and call you Broi?)
Do you think I’m stupid? I know exactly what my son is studying and I know what it is equivalent to. I have, after all, just spent a week on the telephone talking to various universities in England to collect the above information.

He is studying a level 3 National Certificate (12 units) in Engineering – this still has the old name because he is studying it at an overseas centre and they will not change to the new names until next year. It is equivalent to 2 A levels and the maximum number of UCAS points with a double distinction is 240.

If you want your child to go to Oxford or Cambridge (or even Sheffield or Southampton) then clearly the BTEC is not the way to go. But there are other universities in the list which I’d be happy for my son to attend, the ones that I particularly like are Leeds University (my husband went here and they do Civil and Environmental Engineering. They have the Institute of Transport Studies there which is just about the best place in the country to study transport) and Brunel University (the course is Civil Engineering with Sustainability which sounds interesting).

Please explain which courses you are talking about when you say, “your better off having him go through a good program here.” I have talked to the Civil Engineering Department at the HK PolyU and they told me that they would accept the BTEC qualification, especially with the A level in Maths. I haven’t asked at the any of the other Hong Kong Universities because my son wants to study in England (he feels it is time to spread his wings a bit). I agree from a money viewpoint it would be much cheaper to have him study in Hong Kong. But that would be true for almost any Hong Kong citizen no matter what their qualifications.

SARAH
 
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>>> north american equivalent

But the ESF is very much a British institution. Not sure of they hire North American teachers of even have a large enough North American student base
 
I don't know why there are so few Canadian teachers within the ESF system, eh?

Here's something I found on the ESF website regarding 2009 university destinations. While Shri is right, ESF is v much a British sytem, 29% of ESF graduates head to North America to study. (46% head to UK). 29% is considerable.
· 321 students went on to study in the UK, compared with 269 in 2008 and 305 in 2007. This represents approximately 46% of students [variation in previous years 44-48%].
· 107 students went on to study in the USA compared with 105 in 2008 and 137 in 2007. This represents approximately 15% of students [variation 16-22%].
· 96 students chose Canadian institutions, compared with 90 in 2008 and 62 in 2007. This represents approximately 14% of students [variation 10-16%].

29 per cent is considerable. I definitely agree there needs to be a program for students who are more suited to the trades/arts/graphics, but I would be happier if it was a program recognised around the world.
 
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