Sorry, misunderstood your post. You know how it it is online, you say something someone else misinterprets it.
Curious though ... don't HKIS / CDNIS etc have north american equivalent programs?
BTEC - Business and Technology Education Council qualifications at ESF
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Sorry, misunderstood your post. You know how it it is online, you say something someone else misinterprets it.
Curious though ... don't HKIS / CDNIS etc have north american equivalent programs?
Sarah_Lotus
Registered User
I don't know about now but four years ago CDNIS definitely didn't have any alternative. And so I removed my son and he went to England to study. At the time we couldn't find a course in an international school in Hong Kong that would suit him.
SARAH
Sarah_Lotus
Registered User
Today I attended a talk at West Island School given by the admissions officer from HKUST. They talked through the main points of their university, entry requirements and how to apply.
The main entry requirements for the non-JUPAS entry route into Civil Engineering are:
passes in at least 7 subjects in the IGCSE/GCSE/GCEOL
and
ABB at A level,
37 points at IB,
or DDM with the full BTEC
When I asked about the double BTEC with A level maths I was told the requirement would be DD in the BTEC and at least a B in the A level.
{The non-JUPAS route is going into university for a three year course after Form 7. This year's entry to universities in Hong Kong is complicated because they are changing from a Form 7 (Year 13) entry with a three year degree to a Form 6 (year 12) entry with a four year degree. So both Form 7 students and Form 6 students are applying for university this year!}
Last year HKUST had 60 students who entered with the IB qualification and the average was 36.4 points (a minimum of 30 is required). The average IB result of the West Island School students who went to HKUST was 38 points and the highest was 40 points. (The talk was mainly about how to get in with the IB qualification.)
I want to thank the careers teacher at West Island School as I believe that she has been putting in a lot of effort to explain the BTEC qualification to the universities in Hong Kong. And it seems that the universities do have some understanding of the qualification.
It is clear that the BTEC qualification is not the equal of the IB. But if a pupil is not suited to the IB there are very few choices for university entrance qualifications in Hong Kong, especially amongst the International Schools.
SARAH
The main entry requirements for the non-JUPAS entry route into Civil Engineering are:
passes in at least 7 subjects in the IGCSE/GCSE/GCEOL
and
ABB at A level,
37 points at IB,
or DDM with the full BTEC
When I asked about the double BTEC with A level maths I was told the requirement would be DD in the BTEC and at least a B in the A level.
{The non-JUPAS route is going into university for a three year course after Form 7. This year's entry to universities in Hong Kong is complicated because they are changing from a Form 7 (Year 13) entry with a three year degree to a Form 6 (year 12) entry with a four year degree. So both Form 7 students and Form 6 students are applying for university this year!}
Last year HKUST had 60 students who entered with the IB qualification and the average was 36.4 points (a minimum of 30 is required). The average IB result of the West Island School students who went to HKUST was 38 points and the highest was 40 points. (The talk was mainly about how to get in with the IB qualification.)
I want to thank the careers teacher at West Island School as I believe that she has been putting in a lot of effort to explain the BTEC qualification to the universities in Hong Kong. And it seems that the universities do have some understanding of the qualification.
It is clear that the BTEC qualification is not the equal of the IB. But if a pupil is not suited to the IB there are very few choices for university entrance qualifications in Hong Kong, especially amongst the International Schools.
SARAH
Shri - you need to be more educated.
You are so off the mark with this comment that it could be classified as ........................ (so I don't get deleted).
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I AM DOING AT THE MOMENT. PERIOD and as a parent myself, as you know all to well, your last sentence is amazing.
If GeoSchools is going to be about positive support it also has to be balanced with reality. All ........ I REPEAT ALL ....... my comments have been true and to the point. I have after all, done this course. I have used it to enter a Uni course.
If anyone here can fault me with experienced alternates then I will eat my words and apologise. Sarah has got rose tinted glasses about her cub and mothers get protective about their cubs. Its not mine so excuse me if I rely on truth and reality for a reply that will not confuse or misinform others looking to this scheme. Or, do you prefer GeoSchools to be a place to be misinformed by being al "pink" about the subjects that are commented upon?
You are so off the mark with this comment that it could be classified as ........................ (so I don't get deleted).
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I AM DOING AT THE MOMENT. PERIOD and as a parent myself, as you know all to well, your last sentence is amazing.
If GeoSchools is going to be about positive support it also has to be balanced with reality. All ........ I REPEAT ALL ....... my comments have been true and to the point. I have after all, done this course. I have used it to enter a Uni course.
If anyone here can fault me with experienced alternates then I will eat my words and apologise. Sarah has got rose tinted glasses about her cub and mothers get protective about their cubs. Its not mine so excuse me if I rely on truth and reality for a reply that will not confuse or misinform others looking to this scheme. Or, do you prefer GeoSchools to be a place to be misinformed by being al "pink" about the subjects that are commented upon?
Sarah_Lotus
Registered User
Boris, the discussion is about whether or not it is possible to get into university with a BTEC qualification not what my son is capable of.
The answer to whether you can use a BTEC to get into university is a qualified YES. Some universities don’t accept it but some do. And some of those that do are considered very good universities. Of course, the grades needed to get into the good universities are high. They are high for any type of qualification – not just for the BTEC.
Now you have made this thread very personal about whether my son would manage to get the qualifications or not. I have no idea what you are basing your opinions on but I’m sure you will forgive me it I take the predicted scores from the school and tutor rather than you.
You may think I have rose tinted glasses when I look at my son. Your opinion really doesn’t worry me as I know my son and my experience is that my expectations are realistic.
SARAH
The answer to whether you can use a BTEC to get into university is a qualified YES. Some universities don’t accept it but some do. And some of those that do are considered very good universities. Of course, the grades needed to get into the good universities are high. They are high for any type of qualification – not just for the BTEC.
Now you have made this thread very personal about whether my son would manage to get the qualifications or not. I have no idea what you are basing your opinions on but I’m sure you will forgive me it I take the predicted scores from the school and tutor rather than you.
You may think I have rose tinted glasses when I look at my son. Your opinion really doesn’t worry me as I know my son and my experience is that my expectations are realistic.
SARAH
Your first post was all about your son. Most of your posts have been about your son.
My first post (in response to the OP - whom I know personally) was as background to the BTEC system because she obviously understood very little about it. Having done it, I gave my experience. In fact I never mentioned your son.
HOWEVER .... your reply (#5) to MY post goes on and on about your son, so it was only correct that in my replies I addressed his specific case as you had expectations that were, in my experience (remember I HAVE experience) , unreasonable. I have reiterated more than once that I wish your son well. I have never resorted to personal vindictive attacks, unless you classify sartorial comments as such. In FACT I have given my experienced view that this course (Nat Cert) has only at very best, a slim chance of gaining your requirement of UNI entrance. This is truthful and honest.
Your view expressed constantly is that BTEC is a way into Uni, QUOTE” and good ones” UNQUOTE as an alternate to IB . IT IS NOT in the way you describe how you expect your son to attain it. If you get the highest honours in the course your son is on then, even then, it’s an outside chance AND, as you are attempting, you need a VERY GOOD Maths A level grade. The likely hood of an individual who, by your, your son and the school ( as you quote) assessment has little academic bent, which made him unsuitable for IB, could get a DD AND an A or B @ A level Math is extremely unlikely. HOWEVER – again – I wish him good luck. I have also explained how I did it and how your son would need to. You ignore any response to that reality.
All in all you are guilty of spreading a view that is at best inaccurate and all the while describing how your son will do. You also bandy that the family hold 5 degrees as if that was some qualification to support any views you hold. It isn't.
It has been ALL about your son, contrary to what you proclaim and I have truthfully answered as responses in that regard. I find this pontificating disingenuous to someone whose post was informative and for those who could gain truthful information from such follow ups that where in response to what you posted and NOT by my own volition.
No doubt the admin will close this thread but I reiterate my position in all of this as providing honest responses from personal experience and not any other views.
My first post (in response to the OP - whom I know personally) was as background to the BTEC system because she obviously understood very little about it. Having done it, I gave my experience. In fact I never mentioned your son.
HOWEVER .... your reply (#5) to MY post goes on and on about your son, so it was only correct that in my replies I addressed his specific case as you had expectations that were, in my experience (remember I HAVE experience) , unreasonable. I have reiterated more than once that I wish your son well. I have never resorted to personal vindictive attacks, unless you classify sartorial comments as such. In FACT I have given my experienced view that this course (Nat Cert) has only at very best, a slim chance of gaining your requirement of UNI entrance. This is truthful and honest.
Your view expressed constantly is that BTEC is a way into Uni, QUOTE” and good ones” UNQUOTE as an alternate to IB . IT IS NOT in the way you describe how you expect your son to attain it. If you get the highest honours in the course your son is on then, even then, it’s an outside chance AND, as you are attempting, you need a VERY GOOD Maths A level grade. The likely hood of an individual who, by your, your son and the school ( as you quote) assessment has little academic bent, which made him unsuitable for IB, could get a DD AND an A or B @ A level Math is extremely unlikely. HOWEVER – again – I wish him good luck. I have also explained how I did it and how your son would need to. You ignore any response to that reality.
All in all you are guilty of spreading a view that is at best inaccurate and all the while describing how your son will do. You also bandy that the family hold 5 degrees as if that was some qualification to support any views you hold. It isn't.
It has been ALL about your son, contrary to what you proclaim and I have truthfully answered as responses in that regard. I find this pontificating disingenuous to someone whose post was informative and for those who could gain truthful information from such follow ups that where in response to what you posted and NOT by my own volition.
No doubt the admin will close this thread but I reiterate my position in all of this as providing honest responses from personal experience and not any other views.
Sarah_Lotus
Registered User
On this we are agreed - except I don't think it is an outside chance if he has the qualifications. How many students do you know who have got to university via the BTEC route. As I said earlier I know four of my daughters friends.
It is this bit we disagree. I never said my son “has little academic bent” – you did – even though you have never met him and know nothing about him other than the fact I said he wasn’t suitable to study the IB.
Are you so lacking in experience that you’ve never met a student who is highly academic in subjects that interest him but can’t mange the subjects that don’t? I can give you loads of such examples. As I mentioned earlier my elder son also wasn’t suited to studying the IB but is now at university. Not suitable for the IB doesn’t necessarily mean not academic - or are you too thick to understand such a simple concept?
I have not ignored the fact that my son needs good results to get into university via the BTEC route. I have just ignored your assessment of my son’s abilities.
What you seem to have ignored is that fact that whatever route you take to university is dependent on getting good results. You are more likely to get into university to with a double distinction and a A or B at A level than with only 28 or 29 points in the IB.
I used my son’s example as someone who was trying to get into university with the BTEC qualification and gave information I’d obtained from various universities.
You on the other hand talk about getting into university (what I imagine was some years ago) and gave no up-to-date information. You then filled the thread with assertions that my son would never get the qualifications needed – something you are not qualified to discuss. Whether he gets the qualifications or not does not change the fact that with those qualifications he could go to university.
SARAH
TheQuasimother
Registered User
Sarah_lotus
Boris paints a very bleak picture of things. I don't live and work in a picture perfect teaching world but even so, I think it's a little unrealistic. And really, the BTEC then is different from a BTEC now.
Your child is getting the support he needs to succeed. I remember talking to you after I gave birth about him! In my experience as a teacher, I would say that any child who gets the support he/she needs on top of what the school would provide, I'd say he most definitely succeed.
Most 'normal' kids I know, from my own experience at school and teaching, a 'B' grade at A Level Maths is a norm. I wasn't even from a top tier school. Most schools I've worked at with the exception of 1 are not top tier. To get a 'C' at A Level Maths is to know that the student sat for his A Levels without studying! LOL!
So, I'm quite curious to see where Boris gets his statistics unless he's measuring the success of kids who are already to begin with, at the bottom of the barrel so to speak - Not your average kid. Most kids I know, most parents who've gone through the system and most kids I teach (overseas and in HK) end up doing alright as long as they stuck it out within the British and Australian system.
Again, you're not unrealistic and in fact, doing a great job! And nothing you say isn't true. It isn't painting a rosy picture of life after BTEC. It is realistic. The grades to achieve are there for all to see. And, for the average child, is truly quite achievable (with support and guidance). I've seen parents, students and friends who did not go to university the regular way and they've done well (and some better!) than their peers who did.
Good Luck to your son! I hope it all works out!
Boris paints a very bleak picture of things. I don't live and work in a picture perfect teaching world but even so, I think it's a little unrealistic. And really, the BTEC then is different from a BTEC now.
Your child is getting the support he needs to succeed. I remember talking to you after I gave birth about him! In my experience as a teacher, I would say that any child who gets the support he/she needs on top of what the school would provide, I'd say he most definitely succeed.
Most 'normal' kids I know, from my own experience at school and teaching, a 'B' grade at A Level Maths is a norm. I wasn't even from a top tier school. Most schools I've worked at with the exception of 1 are not top tier. To get a 'C' at A Level Maths is to know that the student sat for his A Levels without studying! LOL!
So, I'm quite curious to see where Boris gets his statistics unless he's measuring the success of kids who are already to begin with, at the bottom of the barrel so to speak - Not your average kid. Most kids I know, most parents who've gone through the system and most kids I teach (overseas and in HK) end up doing alright as long as they stuck it out within the British and Australian system.
Again, you're not unrealistic and in fact, doing a great job! And nothing you say isn't true. It isn't painting a rosy picture of life after BTEC. It is realistic. The grades to achieve are there for all to see. And, for the average child, is truly quite achievable (with support and guidance). I've seen parents, students and friends who did not go to university the regular way and they've done well (and some better!) than their peers who did.
Good Luck to your son! I hope it all works out!
@The Quasimother
I would always defer to a professionals view of the system they work in and have historical experience of ......... HOWEVER ..................
Point 1) The BTEC is different now only in its breadth and scale. It's original intentions are still pure. You should note my comments relate to the aspirations of a person sitting NAT CERT. Look at that in isolation rather than a comment on the whole. Then you might see my "bleak picture" in perspective.
Point 2) Statistics. I don't believe I have never quoted pure statistics ( by % or otherwise ) so I don't get your point. I have quoted from official BTEC / EDEXEL publications.
Point 3) "I've seen parents, students and friends who did not go to university the regular way and they've done well (and some better!) than their peers who did."
Fantastic. If you had met me then you could have added another to your list. AS I CLEARLY STATED .. I got there from HIGHER NATIONAL DIPLOMA and am quite proud to have done so. I am not and never have said, that taking BTEC does not allow you Uni Entry. It does and I am proof. What my point was( as I said before ) is in regard to the expectations of NAT CERT . Even if you get DD then it is still an outside chance with a good pass @ A level maths that this could be achieved.
Point 4) A level Maths. Yes indeed, anyone taking A level maths should be expected to gain a B. HOWEVER .... what you fail to mention is that this is students WHO ARE CHOSEN by their teachers ... in school ... to do that exam. This is NOT the case here. the student was ( by himself, his parents and his teachers ) not selected for an academic track. So ... your observations are a moot point at best. As you are well aware teachers will only recommend students who are capable of success. They do not promote aspirations. You are remiss not to point that out.
As a teacher you are used to putting out a positive vibe and you appear to have a personal connection with Sarah. So this might be even more true. I would be happy to debate any point you might have, face to face, at any time but as an engineer by training I would stick to cold hard proven facts rather than making statements leaving out important matters on what is an important issue.
To you finally.
I would work hard to see any student succeed by any mechanism, but some parents just will not be told or understand the cold hard facts in the matter. Maybe after the event they may become wiser, a bit like children growing up learn to be. If you want to paint me as a "bad father" then fill yer' boots and I will wait until the inevitable day of judgement comes when the envelope crashes to the mat. I HOPE it's a DD with A in Maths and he gets his dream. However by any reasonable measurement at this low level NAT CERT, the statistics are against him. FACT.
I would always defer to a professionals view of the system they work in and have historical experience of ......... HOWEVER ..................
Point 1) The BTEC is different now only in its breadth and scale. It's original intentions are still pure. You should note my comments relate to the aspirations of a person sitting NAT CERT. Look at that in isolation rather than a comment on the whole. Then you might see my "bleak picture" in perspective.
Point 2) Statistics. I don't believe I have never quoted pure statistics ( by % or otherwise ) so I don't get your point. I have quoted from official BTEC / EDEXEL publications.
Point 3) "I've seen parents, students and friends who did not go to university the regular way and they've done well (and some better!) than their peers who did."
Fantastic. If you had met me then you could have added another to your list. AS I CLEARLY STATED .. I got there from HIGHER NATIONAL DIPLOMA and am quite proud to have done so. I am not and never have said, that taking BTEC does not allow you Uni Entry. It does and I am proof. What my point was( as I said before ) is in regard to the expectations of NAT CERT . Even if you get DD then it is still an outside chance with a good pass @ A level maths that this could be achieved.
Point 4) A level Maths. Yes indeed, anyone taking A level maths should be expected to gain a B. HOWEVER .... what you fail to mention is that this is students WHO ARE CHOSEN by their teachers ... in school ... to do that exam. This is NOT the case here. the student was ( by himself, his parents and his teachers ) not selected for an academic track. So ... your observations are a moot point at best. As you are well aware teachers will only recommend students who are capable of success. They do not promote aspirations. You are remiss not to point that out.
As a teacher you are used to putting out a positive vibe and you appear to have a personal connection with Sarah. So this might be even more true. I would be happy to debate any point you might have, face to face, at any time but as an engineer by training I would stick to cold hard proven facts rather than making statements leaving out important matters on what is an important issue.
To you finally.
I would work hard to see any student succeed by any mechanism, but some parents just will not be told or understand the cold hard facts in the matter. Maybe after the event they may become wiser, a bit like children growing up learn to be. If you want to paint me as a "bad father" then fill yer' boots and I will wait until the inevitable day of judgement comes when the envelope crashes to the mat. I HOPE it's a DD with A in Maths and he gets his dream. However by any reasonable measurement at this low level NAT CERT, the statistics are against him. FACT.
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