Will we ever leave Hong Kong?

[aussiegal]

I feel really bad for you. Enjoying one's environment and place of abode, feeling at home is fundamental to our happiness. It seems so wrong (and unfair) that you should just have to stay positive or put up with it. We only have one life after all.

I would go absolutely mad if my husband decided he wanted to stay here longer than our plan (3-5 years). HK is just not a place where I can walk outside and feel inspired by nature, breathe in clean air, look at a beautiful blue sky (a real blue!) and feel that all is right with the world. I love Australia (and most other places around the world!) because its beauty inspires me. I look outside in HK and whilst some days it is beautiful in its own way it's just not a place I ever feel very relaxed in. Weekends in Oz are such a pleasure. I was feel relaxed by Sunday night, like I've had a good chance to unwind. Here if anything i find weekends stressful. We're always trying to figure out what we can do with our young boys and the result is rarely interesting.

Anyway, I hope you can find a real solution that doesn't require one of you to be unhappy.

 

[Shenzhennifer]

I also have been thinking a lot about how long we will be staying here. I have lived in Asia (Japan, Thailand, China, HK) for the past 6 years or so and the longer I stay away, the better Canada looks, especially now that we`ve just had a baby. But because of the economic situation there, compounded by the fact that my husband is very much not a native speaker, we don`t have a great chance at success there.
Also, nowdays in Canada, all the young families are working their buts off just to achieve or maintain the status quo. Which in Canada is a big house and all the furniture for it, 2 cars, lots of appliances, vacations, etc. That means daycare for the kids from at least a year(after mat leave). And then what? You just work work work to pay your mounting bills, only to barely see your kids and be stressed out about seeing the extended family. That`s how I see a lot of young families nowdays.
People say that HK is materialistic. I think Canada is too, all the western countries and more. But maybe Canada looks less materialistic because all those `materials`, you are just expected to get(the status quo) and most people live the same way in the same class.
LeahH made a lot of good points about not being surrounded by family here so you are your own tight little unit. I really like that about living abroad. Especially not having to live near the in-laws, woo hoo!
But it`s getting to be a toss up - HK is a bit too city, with little escape (that doesn`t involve lots of public transit for us), it`s expensive, I don`t know how we could afford another kid, let alone put our current one in school when the time comes(of course that`s an issue of our own financials - seems a lot of expat families here wouldn`t have that problem). And well, I would love a square of grass to plop my baby onto, plain and simple(btw, we can`t live in Sai Kung or like places as it would be too much of a commute for my husband).
So where is perfect, where is ideal? I have not found that place yet, and I have lived in quite a few.
But you do what you gotta do, sometimes for economic reasons, sometimes for familial reasons, or whatever. I don`t have any good advice here - I just wanted to share my own experience and thoughts.

 

[tikkunolam]

Also, nowdays in Canada, all the young families are working their buts off just to achieve or maintain the status quo. Which in Canada is a big house and all the furniture for it, 2 cars, lots of appliances, vacations, etc. You just work work work to pay your mounting bills, only to barely see your kids and be stressed out about seeing the extended family. That`s how I see a lot of young families nowdays.
People say that HK is materialistic. I think Canada is too, all the western countries and more. But maybe Canada looks less materialistic because all those `materials`, you are just expected to get(the status quo) and most people live the same way in the same class.....

But it`s getting to be a toss up - HK is a bit too city, with little escape (that doesn`t involve lots of public transit for us), it`s expensive, I don`t know how we could afford another kid, let alone put our current one in school when the time comes(of course that`s an issue of our own financials - seems a lot of expat families here wouldn`t have that problem). And well, I would love a square of grass to plop my baby onto, plain and simple.
So where is perfect, where is ideal? I have not found that place yet, and I have lived in quite a few.
QUOTE]

Funny I hear that argument quite a lot around HK. People debate going back to their home western countries and give up their quality of life in HK and then give up a lot of their quality of life from their home countries to live in HK. It all depends on where a person places their values. I know HK is not for me. The pollution, paying ridiculous amounts of money to buy imported and "safe" foods that don't come from mainland and live so far from immediate family and crowded living conditions aren't for me. I don't mind going back home and not having a domestic helper clean and watch my children- I actually can't stand the idea of having one. I don't need to keep up with the Jones' or have ridiculously expensive appliances to keep me happy. Some people fit well into the HK lifestyle and some people don't. It is what you value that will decide for you. But you are in a marriage that hopefully is mutually based and therefore you shouldn't have to live where your partner dictates without having some voice. When your baby arrives your focus will completely change- it isn't just hormones. Hopefully, your partner will fall into sync with that. Your little one will arrive and and things will become much clearer for both of you. Yes, the global economy is not healthy right now but it will turn around. You might have to sit tight in HK for awhile or make sacrifices to return to your home country. My husband and I always debate about which is a better place and he prefers HK to the west. The grass is always greener. But for us, family of utmost importance and why we could never live here long term. We want our children to know their grandparents. We do want a plot of grass to plop our children on.

 

[carang]

shenzheniffer,

you COULD live out in sai kung, get a cheaper place and buy a used car. we've done it.

we are paying less than $20k for 2100' home. 5 bed, 4 bath, garden, 2 car parks.

we bought an el cheapo car ($8000) and i use it to commute daily to tsing yi. it still works out to be MUCH cheaper than most places. it takes me 45 minutes door-to-door.

ideally, i would love to live a little closer to work, but that is just not in the cards. i would rather be on the road an extra 20 minutes per day and enjoy the space we have.

it is a trade-off though.

 

[aussiegal]

Carang, whilst Sai-Kung is definitely better on many fronts it is still not the solution. For many people the commute is too long, you are too isolated and there is not enough 'life' (nice cafes, good restaurants, interesting shops etc) out there to make it worthwhile.

But that is really irrelevant, the main issue I see is that husband and wife don't agree on where their future is. This has to be addressed or one will end up being a martyr. My mother did that and it doesn't work. It will end in divorce at some point even if it's 20 years down the track (as was the case in our family). It is possible to put a smile on and live with something you don't like for a certain amount of time but when you can't see an end in sight it really sucks.

 

[carang]

i agree it isn't a solution... i'm still suffering the "will i ever live in canada again?" complex.

however, i realised very quickly when i was visiting friends in OZ and Canada, that my life in hk wasn't so terrible...

at my friends's house, i caught myself saying..."wow, you have a playroom AND a garden...aren't you luc..." then i realised i have those, too!

like i said, it is a trade off... for us, the slightly longer commute was/is worth it... may not be for everyone, though.

 

[NewMommie]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I feel SO much better knowing that my situation isn't unique (not that I thought it was, but I was only hearing my husband's side of the story 99% of the time, so I felt like my opinion on this was somehow 'wrong' if that makes any sense...)

To answer carang, I actually do have a good job out here, and because I am an expat, I get an expat package and therefore make more. Of course, it's not enough, even with my husband's expat package, to get a reasonably sized house with a backyard and an easy commute. Seeing what you say about Sai kung, however, I will definitely look into that and other options; what I saw seemed unaffordable with a long commute, but maybe I need to look around more. My career actually gets used against me too; my husband argues that I wouldn't be able to get as good a job if we returned to the U.S. either...of course, with the baby on the way we are also discussing me taking some time off in his/her early years, because I don't exactly have a job that translates well into the family planning stage we are in. (Any of you notice that HKers seem to all be workaholics, with a minimum 12 hour workday?!)

I think aussiegal and some others had it right too; I guess ultimately I feel like I have no say in the matter and maybe that is really what is getting to me more than whether HK is a fundamentally good or bad place for our family. But hearing all of you give tips on the good pts of HK help, and so do your encouraging words and personal stories. I'm going to try to talk to the husband this weekend...not to come up with a solution, but just to let him know that my opinion needs to be considered, not dismissed, and that if we decide to stay in HK, it's because WE decide to, not HE decides to. I think that is the best thing I can do for me and for our growing family.

 

[Matty]

I always fine it interesting that people here couldn't bear the thought of the commute from Sai Kung.
From Sai Kung town it's literally 50 mins to get to Central, and I'm talking about taking a minibus and MTR.
You could live 10 mins closer in certain parts of Clearwater Bay, and of course you could drive if you wanted..

I personally don't know anyone in Sydney that works in the CBD and has less than a 30 min commute. Mine used to be 45.

I think we get used to the HK way of everything being 5mins away.

NewMommie, I hated HK for the first few years, and counted down the days til we could go back to Australia.
Circumstances have kept us here for 9 years, (it was supposed to be 2) and since moving to Sai Kung last year, I now know that if we have to stay indefinatley, I'll be happy.

Good luck, I hope you and your hubby can reach a compromise.

 

[babymommy2]

Carang,

for me the reason I wouldn't be able to work is that I am an RN and when I looked into it, many years ago, maybe it has changed, but then for me to get a liscense I would have to sit exams again, I would have to be fluent in Cantonese. I work in public health( and have for aver 10 years, I likely could not pass hospital related nursing exams) and have a perfect job teaching prenatal classes only 2 evenings a week leaving me to be pretty much a stay at home mom. It is not much but it keeps be liscensed, keeps my foot in the door, so that I can work more when my children are older. If I am in hong kong I throw that away, will loose my liscense at home from lack of hours, Nursing in HK is totally different and I from what I have learned, do not practise and are not treated at all in the same way as it is in canada.
That is just one issue for me, there are others.

 

[carang]

hmmmm, interesting. thanks for elaborating. my best friend is a pilot and has put in an application with cathay. his wife is a little concerned about what she will do. she is an OR nurse in canada.

she's ok with taking exams, but not with chinese. i wonder what the requirements would be for working in matilda? they must be the same, but is there any way that she could do the exams in english?