Unsympathetic Husband

[snagito]

Great that your husband is crazy about his daughter, but he needs to understand that she doesn't come as a stand-alone being - you are what's made her into what she is today - you've put in so much effort into bringing her up and keeping her safe so that she can see Daddy for a few hours a day or a weekend or whatever it is.

How about taking a little break from things. Take your little one and head back home to friends and family and stay for at least 6 -8 weeks. Tell him why you're going - and that you need space and time to think about the relationship. I think he needs to be a little concerned about what's going on -maybe this will be a wake up call for him. If not, at least you would have had a bit of a break from it all.

Thing is Geomum, this is the last time you can do this --6 months from now your daughter would have probably started a regular playgroup/activity --and more importantly - you'll have a tiny one needing more attention and things will just coast along with all the resentment that you're feeling etc. If I were you, I would act now and head out once your helper comes back. Stock the freezer if you feel like it with home cooked meals, put the pizza delivery number on the front of the fridge - then he can't say he'll go hungry; the helper should be able to keep the place clean - so then it's up to him to realise how 'empty' a place HK can really be and hopefully make a big effort to get you back here and happy by Christmas.

What do you think?

 

[Hunter]

Geomum, I basically became speechless when I saw your posts. What your husband did are just so familiar in my family too. I am surprised to see so many similar cases in this forum.

Our problem is originated from the different views of raising a baby. We argue a lot because of our son. and now, I think the problem is not from our son anymore, it is from us. even he is being a better daddy now, I still find him annoying to me. yeah, i guess it is due to the lack of respect, lack of support, lack of understanding, plus he will make small things a big fuss. He will list out all the wrong doings whenever we fights. I do not respect man of this kind. I guess I grew up in a no-big-deal family. whenever things happened, we deal with it, but not making things a huge fuss.

I mean I am very stressful, physically and mentally. I know he is stressful too. but to me, if we stay strong together, we can still maintain a happy family.

Now, I don't want to talk to him, I don't want to see him, and of course we haven't had sex for a month by now because I don't want to.

I feel so tired to write about the nasty things that flame me out, but yeah, very similar to your case, geomum. (but lucky that he didn't ask me to work in his office when I ask him to take care of my son).

Some of you suggest to leave him with the baby for a day, well, this won't work for my case. my "dear" husband will send my son right to his parents.

I feel guilty for my son that I am unable to give him a happy family. I know it is not a good idea to argue / fight in front of my son, but boy sometimes the man just flame me out...I feel sorry.

It is very difficult to talk about this to families and friends. In front of friends, we are like a pretty happy family.

 

[gladyswly]

Geomum, I agree with Snagito. Leave your husband alone for sometimes, let him experience his life without you. People always say you would start to treasure when you lost something. If you don't want a divorce, then start with a little seperation. Take it as a vacation for you and your gril, and also to let your husband know that you are not relying on him and you can still survive without him. But, DO NOT make him freezed home cooked meal or leave him the pizza delivery number. Comon!! He is an adult (although he doesnt behave like one), is he going to starve himself? If he can't even take care of himself he is retarted.

 

[thanka2]

Thanka2 I have told him to take care of daughter for a few hours while I go out, he says then why don't I go to his office and work. He says its divison of labour, he works in office while I at home. He is not happy seeing the house dirty, or food not cooked properly. He tells me what have you been doing the whole day meeting friends? He knows its a hard job taking care of toddler but he thinks women have been doing it for ages so why do I fuss.
Cara you are right he has seen his mother being abused and says my life is a breeze compared to her who suffered hell and still did a fantastic job of raising 4 kids.
To go to counselling first of all he to agree there is something wrong with his attitude. He gets furious when the word counselling is mentioned, he is not the kinds who will seek advice from anyone as he thinks he is perfect just the way he is.

Okay, you've told us what he says. But, what do you say? Do you believe it? Is he the "boss" of your home? Does he have a legitimate reason to treat you this way? I think that you won't find one single woman on this forum that will say, "Yeah, you deserve this type of treatment. Yeah, you are doing something wrong." I understand that in some families the husband "rules" the home and the wife "submits" and it works fine. But it seems like you're not okay with that. What do you think?

You said he's not happy if you don't do this or that. What about you? Are you happy when he doesn't pick up his duties at home? (I am of the belief that men have just as much responsibility inside the home as they do outside but of course not everyone agrees with me on that one). I don't believe that the only reason why I exist is to "make my husband happy" or just "keep peace in the home." That may be a cultural thing too.

It sounds to me like your husband has a few really negative tendencies:

1. He regularly verbally abuses you and puts you down.
2. Has unrealistic expectations and is uncompromising in his view.
3. Controls with anger. He tries to get you to do what he thinks is right by using his anger or coldness (passive aggressive anger) toward you.

I hate to say this, but after my work with domestic violence victims (those who are either physically and/or verbally abused), these are the hallmarks of an abuser. There are other things that go along with this too but this is the short list.

Verbal abuse is just as harmful to both you and your children as physical abuse. I've lived through that and it's true. I heard one abuse victim say, "By the time he first hit me, he had put me down so much verbally that I believed I deserved it already."

If you have time, please check out this very short video clip:

iPod

The truth is, your husband needs to be responsible for his attitude and actions toward you. It doesn't matter if he has the most stressful job in the world or not--there is no excuse for putting you down and especially since he does it so much. I think he should reassess his priorities. If his priority is to have a happy family then he has to change. It's not you. It's him.

The fact that he grew up in a home where he saw his mother being abused means he is statistically more likely to become an abuser himself. He has the signs. And the fact that he justifies the abuse his mother went through by saying, "See, she was tough, she just put up with it and she did a better job at raising her kids than you're doing" instead of saying, "What my father did was wrong and I will not do the same thing to my family" and making a conscious effort to praise and build you up rather than tear you down means that he really is in denial about what happened in his past.

It isn't likely he'll go to counseling but you, be responsible for yourself and the mental and physical safety of your children. What you're talking about goes beyond just "my husband is annoying" to being mentally and possibly very unhealthy and dangerous for you and your children. There are resources here in HK. Think about it. You know as a mother what your intuition is telling you and you'd be unwise to not listen to your gut feeling.

We are all here for you and you can PM me anytime.

 

[FionaN]

I would suggest that you try to go to a relationship cousuling together with your husband.

I also have some problems with my husband after our first baby last year, we both get very stress and flighting a lot. We went to our first counseling section a month ago and I find it help us to understand our position as parents.

My husband behave very different after we have the baby, as he can't and don't know how to adjust to the changes and demand a baby creat. it much more work then he expected. So he is a bit lost and try to escape the responsibility.

The counseling give him a different view on how can he handling things better, especially it told by a third party(not from his Wife). He actually start listen and follow the tips.

We just start the counseling not too long ago...so I don't gurantee it will help... but why not try.

 

[Fisona]

Geomum & other mums who have similar experiences, I truly feel for you and I totally understand your frustration.

Try talking to your girl friends, friends who are from different perspective. No questions friends with similar experiences give you sympathy, if you try to talk to friends e.g. not yet married, working or non-working mum, no longer would they give you sympathy, they may give you some creative ideas or ways, to soothe yourself. No one can change your husband. Don't try to do that. Change yourself.

What I try to say is to me, it seems like he enjoys or he is so used to criticizing you. And your response is upset.

Change it. Next time when he says similar meanful things, stay happy mood. In your mind, just take it as he is a crown making fun of himself, what he says is just words, once said, they'd be gone. Enjoy or show great enthusiasm in enjoying the life of a full time mum. Eventually you'll see him looking a bit surprise and maybe he'll change his behaviour.

Also, instead of getting him to take care of your daughter alone (the try to let him be in your shoe way), try "inviting" him to "have fun time" with you & your daughter.

Trust me, your husband is not that bad. Remember the good things that he's done in the past. Remember that he stayed home all the time. At least your husband stayed home.

I may not be 100% but do give it a try. I am a new-mum-to-be, I got married last Nov. I may not have as much experience as you do but I know that relationship is a two-way things. I have a strong belief in family and do not suggest you to get divorce, I would do anything to save the family.

 

[carang]

Fisona,
What geomum's husband is doing amounts to emotional & verbal abuse. you suggest that she turn the other cheek and be happy? really?

as someone who has suffered both physical and emotional abuse (from my father, not my husband) i can tell you with certainty... the bruises of physical abuse heal. the emotional scars NEVER do. no matter how you try to "get over it" they are ALWAYS there.

i do NOT suggest staying with this person if he will not seek councelling. their child will grow up believing that it is ok to treat not only his mother in this manner, but all women.

i do understand that there is a cultural difference possibly at play in your post but to suggest that because i think divorce is an option that makes me less committed to marriage is wrong. i DO think that marriage is a committment that should not be taken lightly. however, i think that if the health and safety (this includes emotional well-being) is under threat to either party, a divorce SHOULD be seriously considered.

 

[thanka2]

The counseling give him a different view on how can he handling things better, especially it told by a third party(not from his Wife). He actually start listen and follow the tips.

Fiona, that is really great that your husband has been willing to even try counseling. There are many, many, many men who would never set foot in a counselor's office and as the original poster said, her husband is 100% unwilling to go to counseling because he believes he has no problems and everything is his wife's fault.

Any recovery program works on the assumption that the first step is admitting you have a problem. In the eyes of this "unsympathetic husband" he doesn't have a problem and its the wife's problem. Classic sign of an abuser as I've pointed out.

But, yes, so thankful to hear that your husband is willing to work with you--that is a sign that he really loves you and your family. Also, he must be somewhat self-confident to be willing to go seek help. Good on you guys.

 

[thanka2]

Fisona, I don't mean to really put you on the spot here, but the advice you gave is dangerous. This "unsympathetic husband" is participating in verbally abusive behavior toward his wife.

e.g. not yet married, working or non-working mum, no longer would they give you sympathy, they may give you some creative ideas or ways, to soothe yourself. No one can change your husband. Don't try to do that. Change yourself.

Fisona, what this woman needs is not "sympathy" or even "creative ideas" on how to "change herself." What she needs is someone to be honest about what her husband is really doing. And she needs resources at her disposal when she finally decides to make the right decision for her and her childrens' mental (and physical) safety. Women have great intuition but we get in trouble when we ignore what our gut feelings are really telling them.

No, she doesn't need to "change herself" because her husband will not accept her as she is and she has done nothing wrong. She does not exist to just make he happy or please him. And he puts her down with names like "lazy" etc.--even if he has that opinion of her he has no right to keep berating her for not doing enough or a good enough job (in his opinion). Isn't one of the first rules we teach our children is to not call people names?!

There is an old saying: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." Completely false. What you are encouraging is for this woman to lie--to act--to put on a "happy face" and pretend that "words will never hurt me." In turn she will be teaching her children that it's okay for people to just walk on you and verbally abuse you and you just "smile and act like it's not big deal." It's one thing when your "enemies" out in the real world are cruel to you and you "turn the other cheek" but if you can't trust your husband with your heart, what kind of place will the home be? It will be an unsafe place for children to learn that love is unconditional and that they will have their mommy and daddy's love and respect even if they don't do everything "right." You can only teach your children by example because actions do speak louder than words.

Trust me, your husband is not that bad. Remember the good things that he's done in the past. Remember that he stayed home all the time. At least your husband stayed home.

And how do you know her husband is not "that bad." How do we measure "that bad" anyway? As Carang said, those emotional wounds sometimes never heal. By your standard the only requirement for being a "good husband" is to have "done good things in the past" (by the way, studies show that most abusers never show their abusive side until after the relationship is either long-term or marriage) or "isn't sleeping around." If a woman is willing to settle for a man that beats her with his words (or fists) but "doesn't sleep around" and/or "did good things in the past" then she is saying to the world, "I'm worth nothing more than this."

I may not be 100% but do give it a try. I am a new-mum-to-be, I got married last Nov. I may not have as much experience as you do but I know that relationship is a two-way things. I have a strong belief in family and do not suggest you to get divorce, I would do anything to save the family.

Fisona, not having much experience as a wife or mother is not the biggest reason why the advice you gave is really off. Please spend some time learning about what domestic violence or family abuse boils down to. The responsibility for the abuse almost always gets put on the victim. ie. "Be a better wife. Just smile. Make the house cleaner. etc." but the truth is its the abusers fault for abusing and the victim is only at fault when they stay.

In closing, many women would do "anything to save their family" including let there husbands verbally beat them into the ground until they can't even hold their head up and allow their children to watch the cycle of abuse in the family continue. And then those little boys and girls grow up and do the same thing with their own families. This is the time to break the cycle and if it takes divorce, then so be it.

Many women have been in abusive relationships and close family and friends encourage her to "Be a better wife" or "Be a happier wife" and she stays in the relationship and it mentally harms her and her children. Sometimes if the abuse is physical, the wife loses her life trying to "make it work."

Divorce should never be taken lightly or jumped into but separation is often the only way to get away from an abusive situation and even then, there are men who "hunt" their wives down and kill them when they leave.

See, abusers are all about control. Whenever they lose control their entire world goes crazy and they snap too. Whether they control with words or their hands or their bank account, they isolate and control.

Below is from a study I helped direct a few years ago. This is a shortened transcript of an interview I did with a woman that gives the basics of her story. There are many more like her. Realize that both verbal and physical abuse are abuse. Also notice the last line highlighted in red.

Ellie:

35 years-old
Married 7 years (together for 9), still married but separated
Mother of 3 children

*
didn?t know husband was violent while they were dating
*
disregarded warnings of women who knew him (they lived in a small town) because he waited on her ?hand and foot?, she had a ?dream wedding? (still will not throw away wedding pictures)
*
they had horrible fights?one time she threw a toaster at him
*
she got pregnant right away after marriage and stopped drinking because she felt she ?had to become responsible??he continued drinking (he is an alcoholic)
*
husband traveled 6 out of 7 days a week??we had no time to fight?
*
she felt that they just had a ?passionate relationship?
*
one time they were fighting in an unfinished basement and he tapped her head on the cement floor?only lightly but it really scared her??the power of denial for me has been extremely strong?
*
after every fight he was remorseful and she thought that she deserved it because she had said some bad things
*
her husband was ?charming, hopeful, an optimistic person??he thought that with the arrival of their second child things would be better
*
she wanted to go to counseling
*
her husband quit his job after they moved to Montana?she was so angry she threw his stuff out on the lawn and in response he gave her two black eyes and a fat lip?she made excuses for 2 weeks and stayed at home.
*
her husband was unemployed for 13 months
*
while she was pregnant with their third child he started drinking a lot and demanded to have sex with her 4 times a night??make love not war??once she refused him he beat her and told her ?don?t ever turn me down for sex again!?
*
her husband would drag her around the house by her hair and give her injuries no one could see?she was okay with it because she could go around in public
*
when she was pregnant she was willing to stand up for herself more
*
the violence escalated from once a month to 4-5 times weekly
*
she tried to do everything perfect but he would beat her over issues of ?too much cheese grinded up for dinner? and over ?the remote control.?
*
her husband beat her in front of her kids
*
she lost her front tooth and got that fixed at a cost of $1,200.00
*
she wanted to run away
*
one night she thought he would kill her?she called 911 and whispered into the phone
*
during the abuse she was in contact with his parents who advised her to ?be a better wife and don?t make him angry.?

from: Open Your Eyes

 

[thanka2]

Oh, and on the subject of "keeping your wedding vows" check out this marriage ceremony below:

YouTube - Helen Bamber Foundation - Vows

Priest: We're gathered here today to witness the union between this man and this woman. The couple have prepared their own vows.

Groom: Today, I give myself to you in marriage I promise to love you in good times, but not in bad. To cherish you with the back of my hand and when you shed a tear to silence you with the nearest object I can find. I promise to discourage you and make you feel small. To laugh at you, not with you and to fill your life with sorrow and struggle. When you try to leave I will stop you with all my might and teach you lesson you'll never forget. In good times and bad, in sickness and in health, I promise to be relentless. These things I give to you today and all the days of our lives.

Text: Don't take a vow of silence

And on the subject of "Children Learn What They See":

YouTube - anti-domestic violence PSA commercial