Uneducated teachers

[geocup]

I know what you mean QM! It is refreshing to hear your thoughts on this as I thought it was just me who found employing unqualified teachers a joke. I am the most qualified teacher at my school and I am always correcting other teacher's mistakes. Pulling them up on errors in their speech (one teacher always says 'I seen' instead of I have seen or I saw - drives me made!), classroom management, report writing, behaviour in front of the students etc. In fact I continually correct the mistakes of the English Supervisors who send out newsletters with mistakes all through it.

 

[bagel]

Thanks a lot for this useful discussion. As I research kindergartens, pre-school and formal playgroups for my son, I'll keep these issues in mind. As for those unqualified teachers without formal education, degree, training, certification etc, it sounds that they are finding ways to rationalize and justify how good they think they are. Degrees/certifications in any profession are a labor market signal for a reason, no matter how many years of professional expertise one gathers.

 

[geocup]

Yes, bagel, from my experience, unqualified teachers DO rationalise how good they think they are. "But I have been this or that in the past and I have X number of children." NO! SORRY! This does not give them the knowledge needed to teach. Might give them the knowledge to entertain children, but not teach!!!

 

[geocup]

Actually, I really wonder why some parents are so concerned with the education of their child in HK and not with their teacher?

 

[carang]

I have NEVER said that I no longer need to learn anything about what I do. Nor have I said that teachers who are unqualified should be teaching in schools. I think it VERY important that in primary and secondary schools, teachers SHOULD be qualified. But just because they are qualified does not make them good.

You can think that I am rationalising all you like. Yes, I have 15 years of experience, but NEVER have I stated ANYWHERE that I am qualified more than I am. All of my students/parents can see my degrees and those of my other teachers, we post them up just for that reason. If presented with the opportunity to further my education and get a PGDE, I will take it.

I think that we should also distinguish where/what is being taught. Personally, I think experience is more important for what I do. Of course, the playgroup leader must be a native-English speaker who speaks correctly and with an intelligible accent, but for me, personality/experience is much more important. Now, I'm talking children 1-3 years of age. For children in primary school, I would have far different requirements for hiring a teacher.

If I open a kindergarten as I've been asked to do by many parents, I would ONLY hire fully qualified teachers. I have no problem with that whatsoever and would insist on it.

 

[nicolejoy]

This discussion reminds me of someone in my husband's family - he arrived in Hong Kong in the 60s or so from Shanghai. He did well at school but never had the chance to go to university so he forged his "degree". He was the first person in his field in Hong Kong and is still highly recognised in this area today - when you google him there are all kinds of articles about him and he's been on the board of all kinds of organisations etc... but he never went to university at all. No one outside of family knows that though - although now with something like 50 years experience in the field, it's hardly relevant any more anyway. He's brilliant at what he does and deserves his positions, even though he was never properly qualified.

I also know some great teachers who aren't "qualified" and some not so great ones who are. I do think there's a place for qualifications, but I also don't think that we should be so "qualification-focused" that we lose sight of what a good teacher (or good anything) really means.

As a university graduate, I know that most of what you do with your degree after uni is on the job training, and the "knowledge" that you learn at uni often is just the ticket you need to enter that particular career. Experience in my opinion is worth far more than education.

 

[AmyH]

I agree to some extent Nicole but I do still think it is necessary to have a teaching qualification in order to teach in primary/seconday school. In Cara's situation I would have no issues there at all, as she is running a play group, which is completely different.
I would love to say that I could be a doctor as I grew up watching ER and House and have taken some first aid courses but would anybody volounteer to let me diagnose and treat them?

 

[TheQuasimother]

I agree with AmyH. In Cara's situation, she runs a playgroup/enhancement activities that support learning (for early learners). And in a such a situation, qualifications are not a necessity. Experience is. Cara's English-Adventures supports a lot of non-native English speakers outside the formal curriculum and positively from what I hear.

But in formal schooling, it is unfortunately a necessity. There are targets to be met/ curriculum that have been split over a 10-12 years in most countries. And this, requires knowledge, experience and training.

It's a combination of experience and qualifications. Not just qualifications. But it is a necessary beginning.

What I think irks Cupcakes and I are the fact that unqualified teachers THINK that they know better when us trained and experience teachers don't profess to know everything. We are continuously seeking improvement as the diversity in ALL classrooms across all countries are just too wide to be dependent on experience.

Teachers in formal school settings need both. In good schools, beginner teachers (Teachers with less than 5 years experience) are guided and not even thrown into the deep end as such schools know that both are required and new teachers are mentored and given lots of on the job PD. Being a good unqualified teacher is only the beginning. Training and accreditation is still necessary. So to that extent I do agree with Nicole, there should not be just a focus on qualifications.

 

[carang]

Thank you, that is much clearer. I cannot agree with you more, if that's what you meant.

However, my brother IS a qualified middle-school teacher in Canada. He WAS thrown into the deep end. He had one prep period per week if he was lucky. He HATED his first two years as a teacher because he got NOTHING of what you described above. He's finally getting a little more support at his new school and enjoying life a bit more, too.

 

[geocup]

From my point of view, I believe that anyone who sets up a learning centre should in fact be educated in the teaching profession and be police checked.