Having an amnio test ruined my life

[wasabibunny]

I thought we were talking about each of our own opinions... we make our own laws and government. These issues should be concluded through discussion and debate. Who decides depends on the government and the institutions one lives under. Now you are just talking about whether or not we have human agency. We decide every day. Governments have to decide daily how much value they put on each individual (and yes, it might shock you to learn this but sometimes they actually put a price on our heads when they are making policies that might affect morbidity or mortality rates). We don't have unlimited resources. When do you pull the plug on someone in a vegetative state? When are people allow to abort a fetus? How much social aid and healthcare do the elderly receive? These decisions are made daily. Unless of course you have private health care or are extremely wealthy. We draw lines in our lives everyday. It's dishonest to pretend otherwise.

 

[carang]

so you think that aborting "disabled" children should be a gov't policy?

if that's the case, then it is very easy to see why hitler was brought into the thread.....

 

[wasabibunny]

I didn't ever say that. You are responding this way because you are offended and reacting emotionally. It's not a black and white issue. There is a lot of discourse and thought that go into bioethics. If you want to put words in my mouth because that makes you feel like you are winning, then fine. Although I would much rather prefer rational well thought out arguments that actually stick to the topic at hand. But that might be expecting too much here.

 

[carang]

no, i was asking if i was understanding you correctly. that is how your previous post sounded.

so, again, how/who draws the line?

also, do you really think that a consensus can be reached regarding such a "policy"? many can't even agree on whether abortion should be legal or not....

what about places that do not "make their own govt"?

 

[charade]

Wasibunny, having agreed that we are all motivated by self-interest in having children - whether you believe in population explosion or not, there's not real reason a good chunk of us should exist or procreate, the only social benefit of procreation being population of the species and maybe ensuring a 'marketplace' for which there already are enough people globally. So speaking from a position of selfishness oneself is pretty shaky ground from which to be telling others to what degree they should be selfish.

But you not only seem to tell them how selfish they are allowed to be but how magnanimous also. Thus, even if a wealthy person can ensure that their disabled child will never be a burden on the rest of society, you believe their wealth would be better spent on some existing disabled child. Why so? You seem to indicate that bringing one more disabled child into the world and spending time and money on it is waste of resources, not just society's but even the individuals. Well, most things we do are a waste of resources - and this is a child we're talking about.

 

[Lali07]

I love these words by Emily Kingsley..

I haven't been in the situation of expecting a baby with health issues, but when I look at my little man's face, I know I would love him and cherish him regardless of his intellect or mobility. In fact I think if he did have those challenges I would feel even more protective of him!

WELCOME TO HOLLAND
by
Emily Perl Kingsley.

c1987 by Emily Perl Kingsley. All rights reserved

I am often asked to describe the experience of raising a child with a disability - to try to help people who have not shared that unique experience to understand it, to imagine how it would feel. It's like this......

When you're going to have a baby, it's like planning a fabulous vacation trip - to Italy. You buy a bunch of guide books and make your wonderful plans. The Coliseum. The Michelangelo David. The gondolas in Venice. You may learn some handy phrases in Italian. It's all very exciting.

After months of eager anticipation, the day finally arrives. You pack your bags and off you go. Several hours later, the plane lands. The stewardess comes in and says, "Welcome to Holland."

"Holland?!?" you say. "What do you mean Holland?? I signed up for Italy! I'm supposed to be in Italy. All my life I've dreamed of going to Italy."

But there's been a change in the flight plan. They've landed in Holland and there you must stay.

The important thing is that they haven't taken you to a horrible, disgusting, filthy place, full of pestilence, famine and disease. It's just a different place.

So you must go out and buy new guide books. And you must learn a whole new language. And you will meet a whole new group of people you would never have met.

It's just a different place. It's slower-paced than Italy, less flashy than Italy. But after you've been there for a while and you catch your breath, you look around.... and you begin to notice that Holland has windmills....and Holland has tulips. Holland even has Rembrandts.

But everyone you know is busy coming and going from Italy... and they're all bragging about what a wonderful time they had there. And for the rest of your life, you will say "Yes, that's where I was supposed to go. That's what I had planned."

And the pain of that will never, ever, ever, ever go away... because the loss of that dream is a very very significant loss.

But... if you spend your life mourning the fact that you didn't get to Italy, you may never be free to enjoy the very special, the very lovely things ... about Holland.

 

[carang]

Lali, thank you so much for sharing that.... i thought it was extremely thought provoking and a wonderful analogy!

 

[howardcoombs]

I have to stick my 3c in here. I've been to Italy, been to Holland, I'm raising 3 "normal" kids but I've been around plenty of special needs kids.

IMO, the analogy is completely off base.
Having a special child is like ending up in China or India or Philippines. Sometimes things work and sometimes they dont. Electricity, water, phones are not guaranteed to be on all the time. If you want to go from point A to point B you may end up with a Taxi, Bus, motorcycle, Bus, back of a truck or on the back of an animal but no guarantee you'll actually get there today. If you ask someone for directions you may get an answer or you may get a blank stare and sometimes you get both; the answer with a blank stare, dont ever assume the answer you get will be the right answer. Some people think its a great place with fantastic people and food and culture; if you can understand its people and inner beauty and give it a good chance, you could fall in love with the place; alas there are many others who cannot stand the place and would not even want to come near it.
Many of these people have never been there, have never studied the place and they want to stay in their ignorance and prejudice and stay completely away from it.

For the record, I love China, India as well as Philippines. If money was no object and I had plenty of time, I would rather spend my time in Italy or Holland but being where I am today, I've grown to love and appreciate China, India as well as Philippines and the people that make up the place.

 

[Lali07]

Just have to clarify, I didn't write it.. The writer, Emily Kingsley is mother to Jason, her son who has DS..

I have also been to Italy and Holland, and loved both. I have no idea how I would feel if I were put in Emily's shoes, but I love her words and think they bring a nice perspective to a situation which no doubt brings very complicated emotions.

All I can think of is how much I love my son and would love him the same no matter his abilities..

 

[carang]

thanks, lali. i know you didn't write it (you made that very clear at the beginning of your post). i loved the words. it was from a source i never would have read or even known about.... so, thank you for sharing it.