wasabibunny
Registered User
I should probably add that I am talking about severe disabilities that affects people's ability to function independently in the world.
Having an amnio test ruined my life
- Thread starter thanka2
- Start date
BECAUSE he/she is our child, and is a blessing, and not a burden.
It is not the same having conceived and chose to abandon, vs opting to adopt right from the start.
I am not saying it's an easy choice to continue with the pregnancy, and all the same respect to those who decide they cannot carry on with it, but that is not to say it is a no brainer why people wouldn't choose to terminate.
nicolejoy
Registered User
I think that this attitude is common amongst people who have little interaction with people with a disability. The truth is that disabled people and disabled children have so much to offer society - and the flip side is, there are many able-bodied people who are probably even more of a drain... people addicted to drugs or alcohol (which is in some ways just as "disabling" as a physical disability), people in countries such as Australia who choose not to work but just like on social security (I know many such people)... should they also not be allowed to live?
I think that such attitudes towards people with disabilities can rapidly degenerate into eugenics and supremacy, the very same ideology that Hitler had when gassing millions of people (both disabled and able-bodied) in WW2. In fact, selective reproductive technology is often called "the new eugenics".
I wish that everyone had the opportunity to interact with people with disabilities more frequently - those with both physical and cognitive disabilities. These people increase diversity amongst us and are some of the most valuable assets to our society.
On the contrary, I think it is more selfless than selfish. It is an incredibly hard journey. I know of mothers who have children who became ill and disabled, I can tell you the amount of love I witness (parents, children, relatives, friends) is amazing and touching. The children are a true blessing and constantly remind us to be better people. In fact 2 of them I know are so talented that they have recently held an art exhibition that wad truely impressive. I, for one, do not view them as a burden to society. There are many ways one can be a burden, but in the case of a child, I don't think so. We don't choose our children, we should love them all alike.
erina320
Registered User
You have obviously never worked (or for that matter even been close to a friendship) with a disabled person before. Your logic is truely disturbing. People with disablities give the rest of society (not just the parents of these people) the opportunity to learn and practice compassion. They are genuine people who challenge "society" at large to question what it is to be human, to know love for another, to sacrifice, to give and gain nothing in return and in short to be a better, more selfless human being. I challange you to find anyone who has worked with, knows closely or is related to a person with special needs to say otherwise.
By your logic, we are cold, heartless chattle. Here only to work and contribute like unfeeling animals or robots. Elderly should be disposed of instead of loved and cared for by their extended family, the unemployed should be cast out of socity instead of given a second chance and anyone who ends up terminally ill or otherwise unproductive has no worth to the rest of us so let's get rid of them too. It's sickening...
Ooooh....that stings. (BTW...I said the PC thing on another forum, I think. :redface:
I just want to clearly state here that from reading wasabibunny's posts here in this thread that my personal ideals/philosophies etc. really are in no way connected to how she feels about this topic. I am not familiar with wasabibunny but it appears in this regard we have absolutely nothing in common ideologically. Just want to make that clear.
carang
Registered User
no, no, no... i didn't mean that they did.... if the remarks were from elsewhere, my deepest and sincerest apologies. (i thought that was what you said on the porn thread.... if not, apologies! 
)
i could never in a million years think you would think the same as wasabibunny.... i don't know many people who do.
)i could never in a million years think you would think the same as wasabibunny.... i don't know many people who do.
howardcoombs
Registered User
Politically Correct
If you are a Canadian - an old, dead political party
If you are a Canadian - an old, dead political party
Oh, I wasn't astonished by wasibibunny's comments on PC grounds. Rather it's the logic that confounds. Especially"There are already so many orphans and disabled individuals and starving children." Again, by that logic, none of us should be having children at all, given how overcrowded the world is and how many children there are that could be adopted.
The fact is that most of us don't choose to have children for altruistic reasons - there is the "pleasure of reproduction" (that wasabibunny cites) and a number of other reasons which are unconnected to the good of society and more connected to the good of ourselves. Moreover, I'd wager that most people who choose to terminate a pregnancy because the child is going to be disabled do so for reasons more to do with themselves than the good of society. So why should parents who choose to give birth to a child that might have a disability be particularly singled out as selfish?
I don't see what great contribution most of us are making to society anyway. We exist and we are trying to exist comfortably, consuming a chunk of the earth's resources as we go along.
I also find this 'burden on society' line of thinking scary because its extreme form is the Nazi idea that anyone who does not fit the ideal of a perfect human should be be exterminated. There are still countries in the world where society deems women to be a 'burden' resulting in baby girls being aborted and a skewed sex ratio.
I'm not anti-abortion, nor can I say for certain what my choice would have been had I known that my child was liked to have DS. One of my worries would be how my child would manage once I died.
But if there are parents who feel that they can make suitable arrangements for their child, why not? As I see it, the primary responsibility for caring for children with DS falls on the parents and thus they rightly have the freedom to decide whether to terminate or not. I barely see society playing any big role. As a member of society, I don't feel like I'm bearing some great burden as a result of the few children that are born with a disability. One could also argue that people with disabilities stand a good chance of being independent if society was not so individualistic, materialistic and dare-I-say "selfish" and didn't grudge them a little patience, help and some tax dollars.
The fact is that most of us don't choose to have children for altruistic reasons - there is the "pleasure of reproduction" (that wasabibunny cites) and a number of other reasons which are unconnected to the good of society and more connected to the good of ourselves. Moreover, I'd wager that most people who choose to terminate a pregnancy because the child is going to be disabled do so for reasons more to do with themselves than the good of society. So why should parents who choose to give birth to a child that might have a disability be particularly singled out as selfish?
I don't see what great contribution most of us are making to society anyway. We exist and we are trying to exist comfortably, consuming a chunk of the earth's resources as we go along.
I also find this 'burden on society' line of thinking scary because its extreme form is the Nazi idea that anyone who does not fit the ideal of a perfect human should be be exterminated. There are still countries in the world where society deems women to be a 'burden' resulting in baby girls being aborted and a skewed sex ratio.
I'm not anti-abortion, nor can I say for certain what my choice would have been had I known that my child was liked to have DS. One of my worries would be how my child would manage once I died.
But if there are parents who feel that they can make suitable arrangements for their child, why not? As I see it, the primary responsibility for caring for children with DS falls on the parents and thus they rightly have the freedom to decide whether to terminate or not. I barely see society playing any big role. As a member of society, I don't feel like I'm bearing some great burden as a result of the few children that are born with a disability. One could also argue that people with disabilities stand a good chance of being independent if society was not so individualistic, materialistic and dare-I-say "selfish" and didn't grudge them a little patience, help and some tax dollars.