Frozen v. Fresh food

aussiegal said:
Personally I'm not a big believer in the whole organic debate. For me, living in HK the most important thing is not buying fruit and veg from the mainland or HK. I'm happy to buy non-organic from just about anywhere else just remembering to give everything a good long wash.
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Curious to why you are unwilling to buy food grown locally in HK if it is organic? I live directly next to a traditional HK organic garden (can walk there in less than 10 minutes) and I have to say having seen their growing methods, getting to know the local growers themselves and tasting their produce (which is tastier than any I've eaten elsewhere--they pick it right then and there so it is absolutely the freshest) I completely stand by the local agriculture here. (It's also a great way to see a traditional part of HK). Also, I don't think it's fair to lump Mainland growing techniques into the same category as what happens here in HK (I've lived in ML China as well and have visited local growing programs there--no comparison between HK). Buying locally not only is more affordable than getting your veggies from abroad (if you buy directly from the growers which is totally do-able here--some even deliver!) but it also supports and encourages a part of the local economy and reduces our "carbon footprint" (all the fuel used to package and deliver those foreign-grown groceries). Check it out! :grouphug:
 
Organic is Possible

I just want to make it clear that organic is not luxury--it's just that the expensive grocery stores make it seem so. My father was an organic veggie gardener with a "truck garden" during the entire time I was growing up--so I do understand what organic is and what it isn't. I think that organic food in the super market has become a niche item that is over-packaged and as Carang said, Li Ka Shing (Ka Ching!) is getting the bucks from it. It is a "value-added" product and they are charging you for the "status" of it--basically, all that stuff is way overpriced!

If you buy your veggies at the local street market--or even at the grocery stores you have no way of knowing whether those veggies were grown in a field watered by industrial waste in China (The Pearl Report did a lengthy story about this about a year ago). If you pay more for those veggies grown abroad, you are really cheating yourself and the local organic growers who are trying to do right by not only the land (because pesticides and fertilizers damage it for future generations) but by the people of this city--they believe in food, the way it can be and they put a lot of love, sweat and tears into their operations to keep it that way.

It is becoming more and more convenient to buy these veggies (a grower next to where we live is well-known through out the city and even does deliveries!) and by and large, they are much tastier (the difference in the taste of carrots is unmistakable--in fact, I would venture to say that most people have never eaten a truly delicious carrot) than the other veggies available--AND they are cheaper.

For example, I bought about 3 pounds of fresh (straight out of the ground--I watched the grower pick it) spinach for about $35 HKD. The frozen spinach in Park n' Shop is around 50-60 HKD. The spinach lasted, in my refrigerator for about 2 weeks and was just as delicious the entire time!

When I bought it, I asked the grower about his process and he brought out the peanut fertilizer he uses for me to smell and touch and then explained how they process the peanuts for the oil and sell it and then use the fertilizer on their fields. So interesting!
 
MLBW, actually I don't trust many so called 'organic' producers, wherever they may be. If I lived close by to one as you did/do and I could see wth my own eyes that things were grown organically, picked at the peak etc I'd be more inclined to believe the hype. As it is even in Australia there have been lots of scandals about so called organic fruit and veg suppliers selling regular produce but heaping a bit of soil on everything to make it look organic!

This notwithstanding, I still don't see a big difference between the mainland and HK. If you compare HK to a place like Australia, a country without pollution, with clean water etc even regularly produced vegies in Oz would be healthier than 'organic' produce from HK. HK producers might not be as 'ethically challenged' as some Mainland producers but you can't get away from the fact that the environment here is one of the unhealthiest and it's in these conditions that fruit and veg are grown.

That said, I do miss good carrots so maybe I'll try out your contact :)
 
Aussiegal, I would venture to say that Australia is not "without pollution" as you say as any developed country uses fertilizers and pesticides that are chemically hazardous to our health (my husband's old boss is from New Zealand--she grew up on a farm there--and even today she suffers the effects of chemical poisoning from just being near the fertilizers that were used in the fields her family tended--nothing dodgy or illegal--just the normal chemicals that are used every day to increase output and therefore make more money while throwing the quality and safety of the produce to the wind).

Believe me, if you saw Mainland farms and HK farms, you would see the difference. From my experience, I do believe that those in the organic vegetable association are in it for more than just the short-term--they want a long-term reputation for high quality and standards. That is a big difference between here and the ML--also, these farmers have been at this for generations--sometimes they even own the land they work so it's a whole different deal.

It is easy to take a local tour in HK and see the growing methods (small-scale, family-oriented, using traditional techniques that are hundreds of years old--they water with traditional irrigation and watering cans--very labor intensive actually)--there are tourists walking through our village every weekend checking it out--it's an hour train-ride from the city.

Anyway, yes, HK is polluted compared to the places we come from (and I have spoken and argued at length about this subject on this very forum) but that isn't across-the-board. I think it's really a great experience to go and see for yourself. That's just another option, I guess.

Carang, we're away from home for CNY but after we return, I'll get in touch with the grower I buy from and get his contact info--I just walk over to his house so I've never actually called him--there is also another guy who offers the delivery service and I'll try to get his info. as well--it's always nice to have more options to choose from.
 
i must admit, that until VERY recently, we bought everything local (except brazilian chicken)...however, hubby and i have discussed it and decided that with all of the health scares from china over the past 14 years (how long i've been here) that it isn't worth it to buy anything from there anymore.

we are usually on a fairly tight budget. i shop in oliver's about once every year or so (usually at christmas), was in 360 once and i actually remember laughing at the prices as i can't imagine paying what they are asking for 99% of their stuff! the same can be said for GREAT. from my perspective, it ain't so GREAT as it's cracked up to be... unless of course you have $20,000/month to spend on feeding your family!

i've since resorted to ordering most of our meat online and so far have been fairly happy with what we've received. i may try to order the veg online, too...being located out in the boonies makes getting to some of these places more difficult.
 
I agree with MLBW, I'm from NZ originally and pesticides / chemicals used as a matter of course there on fruit and veg farmed traditionally are absorbed and not easily washed off, in particular by items with sensitve/thin skins (e.g. strawberries - less so items like bananas/avocados). These indeed have long term effects, a neighbour who moved onto what was over 5 years ago a former raspberry farm, has experienced ongoing health problems as a result of the chemical residue on the property. Locally sourced produce is inarguably best from an environmental perspective.

However, just as no-one remotely implied that those who do not buy organic are bad parents, I don't think it's at all fair for anyone to lable people that shop for organic food at 360 or other supermarkets as mad, flagrant money wasters with huge budgets...

Time and accessibilty drive most things here for me. When I can get to a supplier that can provide locally sourced organic produce (or them to me) I do - sometimes I have time to go to the farmers market, sometimes online suppliers don't have what I need or want.

Additionally, you can ususally get veg/fruit/meat and fish at 360 at significantly marked down rates (40-70% off).
 
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