Happy V - addressing the small issue of smoking, I am one of those anal people who hates the smell of cigarette smoke, so I would not employ a smoker. And yes, no matter what you clean your mouth with, you can still smell a smoker. And yes, it applies to the whole household, I complain when my husband comes back smelling from 2nd hand smoking too, so not bias on that front. You can tell I am one who is ecstatic about the government smoking ban!
Does your helper stay out late?
- Thread starter wanfamily
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I think some of you are being overly harsh and having fun taking 'the moral highground' rather than actually contributing reasonable advice as the OP asked for.
For those who are into setting rules, at the end of the day it is the your right to as long as these rules are laid out at the time the job is offered (and not after someone has started work) then the helper can always say no.
Of course some people will always be extreme in the rules they set but i can completely understand not wanting a helper to be out after midnight when she has work the next day. Personally, if it happens once every few months I wouldn't have an issue at all but if it happened a few times a week, as it does for a friend of mine I would.
It is not easy managing the strange relationships we have with helpers. They live in our houses but at the end of the day are employees. They are adults but not all act responsibly. Some need rules, some don't. Some do the right thing, some take the piss, especially out of new employers which is what the OP is.
Wanfamily, i didn't read anything offensive in what you had to say but i did find it offensive (and unfair) the extreme reactions others have had.
Andrea, i think you are being reasonable. You laid out your rules at the beginning.
On a side note, we have always hired helpers who were married and had finished having babies. It wasn't about 'minding someone else's morals' and not wanting them out partying, it's about not wanting them to get pregnant and leave, which is both expensive and disruptive. We have a friend who is now in the unfortunate position of having a helper who initially started being difficult when told she would need to babysit the kids most fridays because she'd found herself a boyfriend (and wanted to party) and now, only a few months later is pregnant. Helpers of course have a right to get pregnant but if having a pregnant helper isn't in your plan what's wrong with wanting a 'good catholic girl' who wouldnt' want to get pregnant without being married?
And to stir the pot, we have two ex-helpers in our building who have 'replaced' the originals. Hopefully when your husbands are out bar hopping (or working late i think they call it) they won't be hooking up with HappyV or Bump's helpers and planning ways to leave...
I'm being extreme only to counteract some of the stupid comments here.
For those who are into setting rules, at the end of the day it is the your right to as long as these rules are laid out at the time the job is offered (and not after someone has started work) then the helper can always say no.
Of course some people will always be extreme in the rules they set but i can completely understand not wanting a helper to be out after midnight when she has work the next day. Personally, if it happens once every few months I wouldn't have an issue at all but if it happened a few times a week, as it does for a friend of mine I would.
It is not easy managing the strange relationships we have with helpers. They live in our houses but at the end of the day are employees. They are adults but not all act responsibly. Some need rules, some don't. Some do the right thing, some take the piss, especially out of new employers which is what the OP is.
Wanfamily, i didn't read anything offensive in what you had to say but i did find it offensive (and unfair) the extreme reactions others have had.
Andrea, i think you are being reasonable. You laid out your rules at the beginning.
On a side note, we have always hired helpers who were married and had finished having babies. It wasn't about 'minding someone else's morals' and not wanting them out partying, it's about not wanting them to get pregnant and leave, which is both expensive and disruptive. We have a friend who is now in the unfortunate position of having a helper who initially started being difficult when told she would need to babysit the kids most fridays because she'd found herself a boyfriend (and wanted to party) and now, only a few months later is pregnant. Helpers of course have a right to get pregnant but if having a pregnant helper isn't in your plan what's wrong with wanting a 'good catholic girl' who wouldnt' want to get pregnant without being married?
And to stir the pot, we have two ex-helpers in our building who have 'replaced' the originals. Hopefully when your husbands are out bar hopping (or working late i think they call it) they won't be hooking up with HappyV or Bump's helpers and planning ways to leave...
I'm being extreme only to counteract some of the stupid comments here.
carang
Registered User
i am by no means advocating 'NO RULES' in the house. i, too, think it's a good idea to set them out at the begining, whatever they may be.
when i hired my helper, our first and only so far, i told her that i thought she was an adult and i was going to treat her that way. if she behaves irresponsibly and it affects her work (ie. coming home at 2am drunk and unable to work the next day), then she would be fired.
in the 4+ years she's been with us, she's come home after mid-night once and that was new year's eve.
she's NEVER come home drunk. she's NEVER been unable to work after being out with her friends.
that's all that matters to me. it is not up to me to decree what she can do and what she can't. she is 43 years old. if she doesn't know how to behave by now, then she is NOT someone i want helping to raise my children.
maybe the problem that some have is hiring the wrong person/wrong fit for your expectations? if that is the case, imposing rules on an adult is not going to work. perhaps you need to find a better fit for your family?
when i hired my helper, our first and only so far, i told her that i thought she was an adult and i was going to treat her that way. if she behaves irresponsibly and it affects her work (ie. coming home at 2am drunk and unable to work the next day), then she would be fired.
in the 4+ years she's been with us, she's come home after mid-night once and that was new year's eve.
she's NEVER come home drunk. she's NEVER been unable to work after being out with her friends.
that's all that matters to me. it is not up to me to decree what she can do and what she can't. she is 43 years old. if she doesn't know how to behave by now, then she is NOT someone i want helping to raise my children.
maybe the problem that some have is hiring the wrong person/wrong fit for your expectations? if that is the case, imposing rules on an adult is not going to work. perhaps you need to find a better fit for your family?
You see i would find this incredibly insulting. Imagine telling an adult they are an adult and would be treated as such. Shouldn't you just have said nothing if you are really going to treat them as an adult?
I can't imagine my husband going to work and his boss telling him he is going to treat him like an adult.
Weird.
carang
Registered User
i don't think i actually said those words. it was 4 years ago, but i made myself clear that i wasn't going to tell her how to behave. it was up to her. i wasn't going to give her a curfew. i told her that i figured she was older than i was and that she would be treated with respect. just as i expected to be treated with respect.
personally, i would be more insulted being treated like a naughty teenager than being treated with respect.
personally, i would be more insulted being treated like a naughty teenager than being treated with respect.
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carang
Registered User
but i can see this conversation is just going to go the tit for tat way (myself included).
i hope that wanfamily has come up with some ideas on how to handle the situation.
helper issues are always, always hotly debated, each side getting their knickers in a twist...
when it comes down to it, i believe, that we should treat others the way we would want to be treated. to each of us this is different, we all have different expectations, backgrounds, cultures, religions and there is no easy answer to most of these types of questions. just as with raising our children, we do the best we can and what works for our family. that's all we can do.
have a good night everyone!
i hope that wanfamily has come up with some ideas on how to handle the situation.
helper issues are always, always hotly debated, each side getting their knickers in a twist...
when it comes down to it, i believe, that we should treat others the way we would want to be treated. to each of us this is different, we all have different expectations, backgrounds, cultures, religions and there is no easy answer to most of these types of questions. just as with raising our children, we do the best we can and what works for our family. that's all we can do.
have a good night everyone!
Whatever the words the meaning is the same. We've never had any such discussions with our helper. I've never said, 'i'm not going to give you a curfew' or 'i'm not going to tell you how to behave.' We simply let her get on with her job, to me that is treating her with respect.
I'm pretty sure the OP hasn't gotten anything out of this thread since it was hijacked by the righteous police!
I think when you are talking about an employee/employer relationship where the care of children is involved, the rules need to be slightly different.
It's not about treating helper's like children, it's about everyone agreeing where the boundaries are.
I know from experience that expat nannies can be much worse, when it comes to saying out late and drinking, and then having to get up early and care for children.
When I worked as a nanny in HK before having my own kids, I learn't very quickly that late nights out and my job didn't mix.
One friend in particular was notorious for boozy late nights, and very quickly was fired from her job, and rightly so.
Nobody wants to leave their child in the care of someone who is too tired to function.
I don't impose a curfew on my helper. But I have intentionally hired a helper that isn't interested in going out during the week, in a year it's only happened once.
I have no idea what time she gets in on Sundays, and I don't mind as long as she is up and able to do her job on Monday.
Every family situation is different, and you shouldn't apologize if yoiu are uncomfortable with your helper's behaviour.
Wanfamily, if you are happy with your helper's work then it may be fine.
It doesn't sound like she is out partying.
It's not about treating helper's like children, it's about everyone agreeing where the boundaries are.
I know from experience that expat nannies can be much worse, when it comes to saying out late and drinking, and then having to get up early and care for children.
When I worked as a nanny in HK before having my own kids, I learn't very quickly that late nights out and my job didn't mix.
One friend in particular was notorious for boozy late nights, and very quickly was fired from her job, and rightly so.
Nobody wants to leave their child in the care of someone who is too tired to function.
I don't impose a curfew on my helper. But I have intentionally hired a helper that isn't interested in going out during the week, in a year it's only happened once.
I have no idea what time she gets in on Sundays, and I don't mind as long as she is up and able to do her job on Monday.
Every family situation is different, and you shouldn't apologize if yoiu are uncomfortable with your helper's behaviour.
Wanfamily, if you are happy with your helper's work then it may be fine.
It doesn't sound like she is out partying.
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I have to say this is so far the most intriguing thread I've ever read. Great discussions, ladies! Here is what I have to say:
1. First of all, I haven't had the impression that any lady employers in this forum are abusing/ill-treating their helpers. The bad employers would have gone and done the nasty deeds without asking:tongue: So let's all cool down and try to help those in need of advice without trying to turn every thread regarding helpers into a heated advocation for their rights and how they should be treated correctly;
2. Bumps: do you even have a helper? If you do, care to share how you interact with her? Otherwise opinions purely based on your assumption or theory are much less convincing than from a more realistic perspective;
3. HappyV: congratulations on finding your soul mate! However, may I ask you to think twice next time when you present your extreme examples? The one regarding some helpers speaking better English than their employers is simply rubbish. Since when speaking good English has become a criterion on evaluating one's educational level? And the one about asking someone's hubby to put earplug in? I don't think any employer is given a choice by the government to provide free accomodation in their already limited space. Luckily for employers though, at least they are in the position to dictate that the employee should modify his/her way of 're-charing batteries' if it gets in the way of their 'recharging of batteries---by having a peaceful night's sleep!
4. Carang, I know for a fact that you are a very kind-hearted person and you also have a fantastic helper. However, regarding 'rules': every one needs them! There are rules in play in any successful relationship. The society needs them in order to function in an orderly fashion...Being an adult in no way guarantees or equates to 'being able to do the right thing'. Human beings have so many weaknesses! Millions of adults are committing crimes every day even with the toughest rules with most severe consequences attached...So ladies, be free to lay down the rules depending on what kind of helper you are having. Some need more, some need less...
5. And for the ladies who go out of the way to make your helpers 'at home', i.e. by getting up before her, etc. DON'T. By paying a helper and having to sacrifice your privacy and so on to do it, she's there to make your life easier and happier! If you are not feeling so, it's time to change something, or someone...
Having said all these though, I have a wonderful helper who my family and I fully respect, and has in no doubt become a member of the family. She has the freedom to do anything, because I already know that she has her own 'rules' and standards which are higher than I would've had; and because she knows that I would be worrying about her safety if she didn't call after 10pm without coming back HOME!
Have a good night, everyone.
1. First of all, I haven't had the impression that any lady employers in this forum are abusing/ill-treating their helpers. The bad employers would have gone and done the nasty deeds without asking:tongue: So let's all cool down and try to help those in need of advice without trying to turn every thread regarding helpers into a heated advocation for their rights and how they should be treated correctly;
2. Bumps: do you even have a helper? If you do, care to share how you interact with her? Otherwise opinions purely based on your assumption or theory are much less convincing than from a more realistic perspective;
3. HappyV: congratulations on finding your soul mate! However, may I ask you to think twice next time when you present your extreme examples? The one regarding some helpers speaking better English than their employers is simply rubbish. Since when speaking good English has become a criterion on evaluating one's educational level? And the one about asking someone's hubby to put earplug in? I don't think any employer is given a choice by the government to provide free accomodation in their already limited space. Luckily for employers though, at least they are in the position to dictate that the employee should modify his/her way of 're-charing batteries' if it gets in the way of their 'recharging of batteries---by having a peaceful night's sleep!
4. Carang, I know for a fact that you are a very kind-hearted person and you also have a fantastic helper. However, regarding 'rules': every one needs them! There are rules in play in any successful relationship. The society needs them in order to function in an orderly fashion...Being an adult in no way guarantees or equates to 'being able to do the right thing'. Human beings have so many weaknesses! Millions of adults are committing crimes every day even with the toughest rules with most severe consequences attached...So ladies, be free to lay down the rules depending on what kind of helper you are having. Some need more, some need less...
5. And for the ladies who go out of the way to make your helpers 'at home', i.e. by getting up before her, etc. DON'T. By paying a helper and having to sacrifice your privacy and so on to do it, she's there to make your life easier and happier! If you are not feeling so, it's time to change something, or someone...
Having said all these though, I have a wonderful helper who my family and I fully respect, and has in no doubt become a member of the family. She has the freedom to do anything, because I already know that she has her own 'rules' and standards which are higher than I would've had; and because she knows that I would be worrying about her safety if she didn't call after 10pm without coming back HOME!
Have a good night, everyone.
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