Diminishing Milk Supply

[ggrizzy]

diminishing milk supply after starting solids....

i am presently breastfeeding my son (8.5 months) and he has started solids (2 meals/day) since 6 months old. i breastfeed him in the morning and before i sleep around 11pm. during the day, he gets around 4oz after his lunch of solids around 12 noon, then around 7oz around 4pm, then another 4oz after his dinner solids around 7pm. (that makes a total of around 4 bottles of 7oz/day). however, at a recent checkup, nurse said that he's gone from 95percentile baby at birth to 10percentile now!:bawling: i feel that my milk supply is really diminishing and i've recently started to drink mother's milk tea to help boost the supply! during the day, i pump once at noon before i go to work, and once around 4pm at work. i'm only able to get 9oz expressed per day so my stock in the freezer is slowly diminishing too:bawling: i would like to feed my son for as long as i can but i'm so afraid that he's not getting enough nutrients as he's not too much of a good eater with the solids too!

when i was breastfeeding my elder son (now 2.5yrs), i didn't have such a problem around 8 months. i don't know if it's because my younger son was teething around 6 months, and started to sit and crawl around that time too so less apetite plus more expensed energy=less weight gain??? during the day, apart from his 2 main solid meals, he gets yoghurt, and fruit, and cheerios as snacks.

anybody encounter the same problem with diminishing milk supply after starting on solids?

frustrated mum..... :tantrum:

 

[minono]

Grizzy, may be I can bring another experience if it helps.

Regarding growth: my son was a huge new born. Then he went under the 20% centile which did not surprised me as we are short people. Guess what, now at 2.5 y.old is is at 50% centile. So it seems that growth is not a rational linear science. May be you shouldn't be too worried if your doctor isn't worried. As my son was breastfed on demand, I have applied the same rule for meals: I trust him that he knows better than I do which quantity of food he needs. Of course I decide for the type of food and time of meal and he never ask in between meals but he decides alone which quantity he takes. We never argue on this. It is stressing out my Asian friends who are "running after their kids with a bowl and a spoon until all is empty". But it is more cultural than anything: no kids ever ever will starve himself and live hungry.

Regarding your 8m. old, my son started to ask more breastfeeding at that age. I was worried i will not get through and just gave him more by changing breasts more than once while breastfeeding. Also all other tips below are valid. It works and my son breastfed until one year old but mind you only morning and evening at the end and formula for the day.

You did a great job up to now and if all this breastfeeding stops at 9month or so, it is still fantastic you managed it so far. Remember that what ever your desires, you need to be two to agree on continuing.

 

[JennyB]

Grizzy, I've had a similar situation recently with my 12-month-old (who took to solids late). She also went down to the 10th centile at about 10 months, then was diagnosed with mild iron deficiency. Since taking the iron drops she has been piling on the weight (not sure how much, checkup later this week, but it's certainly getting much more of a strain to pick her up!). So that might be something worth checking out with your doctor, if you're not already using supplements.

Another idea is to offer higher-calorie foods. Yoghurt and fruit are what we eat to diet, right?! Maybe try cheese, egg (not officially recommended until after 12 months tho), fish and meat.

My baby is now losing interest in breastfeeding altogether, due to increased solids volume and pride in her independence from walking! I'm desperately trying to keep my milk supply up for another month, as we're taking a long-haul trip to the UK and I'm sure breastfeeding will be most convenient and help comfort her. I took advice from a LLL leader and I was told to make sure I offer breastfeeding before solids, so that she's really hungry for the milk. And direct breastfeeding helps stimulate supply much more than expressing, though expressing does help. Are you direct breastfeeding on weekends, during the times when you would normally express at work?

 

[helena]

To increase milk supply, these can be taken:

1. Fenugreek
2. Brewer's Yeast
3. Nursing Mothers' Tea

 

[barbwong_130]

Dr Jack Newman has lots of information about herbal treatments when breastfeeding at Miscellaneous Treatments, http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/24.html
(This page gives the doses and explains what to buy and what to avoid.)

Remember! Herbal treatments are only part of the solution to ?not enough milk?. Another good page to read is Protocol to Increase Intake of Breast Milk by the Baby, http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/notenough.html

Best wishes,
Barb

 

[wandasmart]

Jools

i was reading your advise regarding expressing milk before a feed. you say that the baby can suck my efficiently the milk out of my breasts then a pump will, so if i feed her after i express, she can still get a full feed.

my questions are :

1) if i express from both breasts and immediately then put my baby on my breasts (switching still between the two for stimulation) will my body have produced enough for her full feed, or should i just express from 1 breast only?

2) i always thought that my baby would need both foremilk and hindmilk. if i express from my breasts before i feed my baby, would that not mean i have expressed the foremilk and some hindmilk, so when my baby latches on, all she will recieve is the hindmilk? will she then be very thirsty without this foremilk? i'v been told i need not feed my baby water as my breastmilk's foremilk will quench her thirst.

3) the books and nurses say that i should feed my baby until she falls off the breast, burp her and then offer her more to see if she still wants more. but they do say that a feed should last no more than around 45minutes. my baby girl however can suckle for much longer then that.. the longest i'v allowed her is 1hr 30minutes before i got so frustrated that i delatched her myself. does this mean she has not gotten enough milk? or is she, as i suspect, sucking for comfort. this becomes a problem when i am feeding her everyone 3 hours or so.. so the feed itself takes 1 hour (thats the max i allow now), play for about an hour.. and then settling for about 30-60minutes.. which means she wakes in 15min hungry!!

4) because my baby is so fussy and so difficult to settle... we have resorted to trying a pacifier to help soothe her. she is unable to keep it in her mouth so everytime it falls out, she cries to have us put it back in. i know people have warned about teething problems when babies use pacifiers and also confusion with the nipple. i so far cannot see any problem with the confusion, but am worried abt any other problems this may cause. however, if we don't use the dummy, she will cry and cry for a long time and still not fall asleep (i can't bear to hear her cry for too long so havn't actually seen if she will sleep from crying too long). has anyone experienced this and have any advice?

thanks for listening.
:bawling: stressed out mom

 

[jools]

Dear mammalicious,
I will try and answer your questions as best I can and hopefully will be of some help.

1. Your breasts are constantly producing milk. The only time they stop producing milk is when they are engorged and there is 'effectively' no more room for the milk. So if you have pumped from both breasts and you find that your baby is 'asking' for milk then it is absolutely fine to put her to the breast and she will get a full and satisfying feed. If it helps I have done this myself especially with my son, who would often catch me on the hop and he is now a thriving three year old who is at the top of the scale for his growth charts.

2. This is only my opinion but I find the idea of fore and hind milk can be a little confusing. I often think that it is a concept emphasised by the medical profession to ensure that babies are not taken off the breast too soon. I have never had an issue with fore and hind milk and actually never really consider it. If the baby takes herself off the breast after a feed, then as far as I'm concerned they have been satisified. You are quite right breastfed babies do not need water to drink. The idea of giving water to a baby is for those who are bottle fed. In the past babies have been given extra formula in their bottles (either by accident or because the Mum thinks that an extra top up might be a good idea), which can be dangerous and therefore, the blanket advice was given that babies should be given water in order to 'water down' any excess formula.

3. You're right an hour and half can be a long time to feed. Firstly I would say try, if you can, to not to look at the clock when you're feeding. Again the medical profession can be obsessed with timing. I remember being told, ten minutes one side and ten minutes the other; this advice would have worked great for my daughter as she stuck to this pattern but my son was all over the place. When you're feeding your baby watch her to see what she's doing. When she's getting the milk from a let down, she'll probably be gulping as the milk's coming in quite quickly and then she'll slow down as the flow tails off. With both my children I have left them on the breast for a little while after the major gulping has finished for two reasons: 1) Although I personally only ever feel the first let down, you can have alot more let downs during one feed, so they may not have finished, therefore, I would give them some time to make sure they have; 2) I feel there is also a place for comfort suckling. If you're happy and the baby is obviously happy getting some 'Mummy and me' time, then in my opinion why not? My son always used to take himself off the breast right from the beginning. My daughter now she's older can take some convincing, so after I'm sure she has taken a full feed then I take her off.

In the early stages breast feeding can feel time consuming. I know my son went through a growth spurt at about 3 weeks and I must have fed him every hour for about twenty four hours. As they get older the number of feeds will go down and you won't feel like you are permanently stuck in the chair. The way I got through those first few weeks and months with my two, is to think, in the grand scheme of things, this is such a short period of time. It doesn't last for ever and it's a wonderful time to spend with just you and your baby. I never saw it as time I could be doing something else, rather time I can spend with my baby. I also have got very adept at reading a book with one hand and breastfeading at the same time (I've read so much since feeding). When my son self weaned at 16 months I was really quite sad because we would no longer be spending that time together.

I'm afraid I can't really help with the pacifier as my two never used them (my son sucks his thumb and my daughter doesn't use anything). One thing that might be worth checking is to make sure your baby is fully winded after a feed. I know on a couple of occasions, usually at night when I was too tired, if I didn't wind them properly then they would be fussy when I put them down. I would pick them up have another session of winding and low and behold out would come this enormous burp.

I hope that helps. I know this time can be very stressful. Remember that your body is built to do this and try to relax if you can. Give us a shout if I can do anything else. It might also help talking to people in person. I know that the La Leche League has really helped my when I've got stuck, you might want to contact them.

Jools

 

[wandasmart]

I have just received a scary email from my cousin.. and wanted to share this and ask if my baby is very fussy.. should i consult a professional just to make sure?

When her sister-in-law's second baby was born, she thought nursing was going fine because the first one was so easy to nurse. Long story short, when the baby was 5 months old, she had breathing, swallowing, reflux problem as a result of the Specialist at the Childrens' hospital figuring out that the baby was dehydrated because there was not enough milk from the breast. For 5 months, the doctors kept saying she was fine and would grow out of her fussiness as she had no signs of dehydration and her weight was fine. But after 5 months, they stuck a scope down her throat and realized she could not swallow because she was so dry! The mom had NO idea her milk supply was low because she had let down and was able to pump! The child is now 2.5 years old and has some very serious medical problems-one of them related to the brain and she is a special needs child.

my daughter's pediatrician had suggested I supplement formula when we were still in the hospital about the 3rd or 4rth day because she had jaundice. however, the nurses told him that I appeared to have plenty of milk. When I saw him with my baby girl at her 8week chk up for shots, I asked for some info about supplementing formula. He seems perplexed as to why I would want to do so if I have enough milk.

Although my baby has about 6-7 wet nappies a day and 3-4 dirty nappies (she is now 10weeks old).. the story above is making me once again re-evaluate my situation as I have several times questioned my supply of milk due to her fussiness.

Im really not sure what question I am asking her.. more I suppose if anyone has heard of such severe cases such as this? I just assumed that if my baby has an adequate number of dirty and wet nappies, that the fussiness surely could not be from not having enough milk...

 

[barbwong_130]

Dear Mammalicious,

I think that you maybe aren?t getting the full story from your sister-in-law about what happened. I don?t mean to imply that she is keeping things from you but I know from personal experience when things go wrong with one of your babies it is difficult to remember all the details afterwards.

There are a number of points in the story that aren?t cause and effect.

1) If a baby is failing to thrive because the mother doesn?t have enough milk this is very apparent to medical professionals long before five months. The big danger signs that are looked for are babies that haven?t regained their birth weight by three weeks and babies that continuously put on less than one pound a month.

2) There are lots of reasons why a baby or child might become dehydrated which are nothing to do with milk supply. It is usually because of illness, especially fevers and diarrhoea which use up the body?s natural fluids. A baby couldn?t live for five months if it was dehydrated the whole time.

3) If a mother can pump milk then the mother has a supply of milk. The same can?t be said of the opposite because often mothers have milk but find it hard to pump the milk out.

There are five things to look for to know if your baby is getting enough milk:

1) At least six wet nappies/diapers in 24 hours
2) At least two dirty nappies/diaper in 24 hours for babies under six weeks ? over six weeks it is normal for babies to produce dirty nappies between a few a day or only once every 10 days.
3) Baby should be putting weight on over a period of time. I would be looking for an average of one and a half pounds a month.
4) Baby has good skin tone
5) Baby is feeding between 8 and 14 times in 24 hours.

Some babies are more fussy than others. If your baby is have lots of wet nappies, is putting on weight, looks healthy and is feeding a lot then your baby is getting enough milk. I would suggest reading the book, The Fussy Baby by Dr William Sears. I found it a great help when I was worried about my eldest daughter wanting to be held all the time. The big lesson I learnt from the book was that my baby needed me to hold her just as much as she needed my milk. Once I was able to accept this and stopped trying to push her away all the time we both became a lot happier.

Best wishes,
Barb

 

[smu_hk]

Hi Mammalicious,

I think I had the same issue as you, with a very fussy baby. [Up to now, still very fussy, I think each baby is individual, you can be sure that your baby is probably going to be more demanding than others, like mine ] In the first 12 weeks especially! I remember I was so frustrated, it didn't help when my mother & sis-in-law was telling me to do all these things which were against what LLL would recommend. I also had the problem of her sucking for more than 1 hr, but it was the only way to keep her happy.
She hardly slept during the day, awake most of the time, she needed to be carried/rock to sleep (yet another thing which I was told that I was spoiling her - otherwise, she won't get her nap during the day). I remember very well that there was a time when she was feeding back to back in a 24 hours cycle during the 3rd week, I really thought I had not enough milk - so my husband searched the net to make sure we were doing the right things. I was constantly told to supplement her with formula by family members -but my husband was determined to not let that influence me; in the end, I didn't and her weight was steadily increasing, it was evident that she was not underfed as they all thought!

Plus on top of it all, I had sufferred Mastitis, I was so hoping to stop feeding her at the same time....but in the end - I persevered, after 12 weeks, it cleared, I was ok

Oh, I also heard story similar to yours about a baby being over-dehydrated, thus mentally slow....but I had not gotten the full facts.
It's stress you don't need during these weeks, don't worry too much! You should be ok. Actually, I did a lot of reading too while I was feeding her in those 12 weeks!

All the best....Hope that helps.