Desperate for advises and comments from other people!
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constancefaith
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This is so true. My family supports and loves my husband very much, at least I think so. They do criticize him, little things like - laziness, forgetfulness, reliant, not ambitious as other 'fathers and husbands' should be... etc.
My hubby admits himself, that my parents actually cares, looks out for him, loves him more than his own parents ever did (They never had a good relationship).
And I do admit, the way I think towards my family supporting us is "not the way it should be" is very Asian and traditional. It is the way we both believe actually. For centuries and centuries, it has been the husband's family's responsibilities for the male's family because the women takes onto the husband's surname and of course the children. I know it's the 21st century, but in relatives, friends and families' eyes... My husband is being a "unless man who uses woman's money".
For myself, I know this is temporary and my husband appreciates but doesn't want it to be this way if he had a choice.
Staying under one of my parents house was never our intention, hence why I bought an apartment. I know I am childish for wanting to stay at home and take care of my daughter while getting paid doing very little. It's very hard to leave my daughter... I don't want to miss out on her little things.
"your internal dialogue gets enacted in every thought, word and deed, and is affecting your relationship." I realize! And you bring up a very good point.
I prioritize pride very much since I was little, and I feel ashamed living under my parents. I can get a job and stop working for my mom, but it's kind of a lose lose situation.
My mom needs someone to deal with all of her stuff, which is personal because she does antiques. She doesn't trust other people dealing with her paper works. There are no one left except for me who she trusts and can help her.
At the same time I can stay at home, looking after my daughter.
I guess I can get a full time job or part time AND deal with my mom's stuff. I just need to be rational and mature up to stop wanting to stay at home with my daughter.
Please don't say you're being harsh, it's the truth. I know it myself but I just can't bear the thought of going to work and leaving my daughter behind with a helper.
Thank you very much you all. I have already talked to hubby over the phone about what you have all said and it really helps us with thinking "realistically". We will discuss further when he arrives home.
But I must say, having a driver and helper does make life a lot easier... and lazier too.
Firstly, I don't think there's many people reading this thread and not thinking '4 helpers!!!' - that's insane, there's not enough work for me and one helper to do with a 17 month old to look after so no wonder you feel a bit pointless, maybe bite the bullet and get some real work experience or study full time to finish sooner.
Actually, same with your husband, why not make a proper arrangement to borrow money from your parents which you will pay back once you are employed - there's dignity in that arrangement and it makes sense not to pay interest to a bank if you don't have to, then you can both study full time, finish sooner and join the workforce proper.
As for all the expensive schooling, how did your parents pay for yours, did they rely on their parents or did they scrimp and save - either way you need to talk to your husband and agree with him (not your parents) what you want to do, try to both get better paid jobs to support your daughter, borrow, or not send her.
I don't really think your alternatives are here or Sydney at the moment, Sydney sounds like a rich girls fantasy of running away not a real plan - if you want to make it real then you need to stop speculating, decide if completing your studies where you are is the most important thing, properly research studying there and send your cv's out to companies, see if you can actually get jobs and what they'll pay and see if you can plan and budget the move properly - until you do any of that it's just pie in the sky.
Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, it's very difficult to be sympathetic to a complaint that is essentially "we have too much free money being handed to us" but I do understand that this is how you were probably brought up and I respect your desire to break off an be independent as a family.
It sounds like you have a problem with your your family being dependant on your parents and blame your husband? Sorry if I've misinterpreted that but that's the part of your post I have the least sympathy with, it actually sounds downright unpleasant (and convenient) that you are clinging to such a gender stereotype when you have had access to rights and education that women could only dream of in times when those sort of prejudices were common, and don't say it's Asian, you're and intelligent, educated woman not a victim of your race and culture. You've both made a decision to take this money and you both need to take responsibility for it.
Actually, same with your husband, why not make a proper arrangement to borrow money from your parents which you will pay back once you are employed - there's dignity in that arrangement and it makes sense not to pay interest to a bank if you don't have to, then you can both study full time, finish sooner and join the workforce proper.
As for all the expensive schooling, how did your parents pay for yours, did they rely on their parents or did they scrimp and save - either way you need to talk to your husband and agree with him (not your parents) what you want to do, try to both get better paid jobs to support your daughter, borrow, or not send her.
I don't really think your alternatives are here or Sydney at the moment, Sydney sounds like a rich girls fantasy of running away not a real plan - if you want to make it real then you need to stop speculating, decide if completing your studies where you are is the most important thing, properly research studying there and send your cv's out to companies, see if you can actually get jobs and what they'll pay and see if you can plan and budget the move properly - until you do any of that it's just pie in the sky.
Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, it's very difficult to be sympathetic to a complaint that is essentially "we have too much free money being handed to us" but I do understand that this is how you were probably brought up and I respect your desire to break off an be independent as a family.
It sounds like you have a problem with your your family being dependant on your parents and blame your husband? Sorry if I've misinterpreted that but that's the part of your post I have the least sympathy with, it actually sounds downright unpleasant (and convenient) that you are clinging to such a gender stereotype when you have had access to rights and education that women could only dream of in times when those sort of prejudices were common, and don't say it's Asian, you're and intelligent, educated woman not a victim of your race and culture. You've both made a decision to take this money and you both need to take responsibility for it.
carang
Registered User
not many mothers WANT to go out to work and leave their children in someone else's care. but the facts of life sometimes dictate that it is necessary. i don't WANT to leave my kids, but i need the money, so i do. there ARE ways to work things out, but i really think that you are hiding from "real life" by living the way you are. you will NEVER have your own family if you don't make a change.
why not either take more classes so that you are studying full-time and thereby shorten your timeline or continue to study part-time and get a real job?
you said it was a lose-lose situation if you go out to work.... EXCEPT that you are not "winning" right now, are you? you and your husband are arguing, you are relying on your parents for ALL of your financial obligations, you are leaving the parenting to the helper, you are NOT happy with the situation.... please tell me: HOW is THAT winning?
why not either take more classes so that you are studying full-time and thereby shorten your timeline or continue to study part-time and get a real job?
you said it was a lose-lose situation if you go out to work.... EXCEPT that you are not "winning" right now, are you? you and your husband are arguing, you are relying on your parents for ALL of your financial obligations, you are leaving the parenting to the helper, you are NOT happy with the situation.... please tell me: HOW is THAT winning?
I lived with my Chinese parents-in-law (I'm not Chinese) for about 6 months in a tiny apartment. That was when we were first married--I was 23 and my husband was 25. Six months was enough! We chose to move out simply to become independent. At the time we had been married one year and I was 5 months pregnant with our first child and my husband was making $10K/month and our rent was $6K/month. We literally lived in a room--not an apartment--our flat was one room with a shower curtain separating the toilette. I look back on those hard times with fondness and wonder how we survived. That time taught me that we don't need as much as we think we do. We were really living on love.
I love my parents-in-law although they are not well-off like your parents seem to be (4 helpers?! what?!) but there was a time for us to live with them and then a time for us to leave. My husband worked for his father's company for four years and even then he always felt he was "living off of" his parents (even though, I never saw it that way as he worked very hard and had to spend considerable time away from the family working in Mainland China). My husband left that stable income and position this year in August because he felt it was time to really "stand on his own feet."
I am 8 months pregnant with our second child. Our 3-year-old is in a local kindergarten and we receive the government subsidy so we pay $800 HKD/month for a great education for him (and it is really a great school). Every HK person has the potential to take advantage of this subsidy--it's one of the few tax breaks that the government actually gives to young families. My husband has only been able to work part-time at nights since August--he doesn't bring in much money but for him he finally feels free and he also feels like "a man." This is worth more to us than a stable wage, honestly because our relationship is so much better now. He's not depressed even though he makes probably less than 1/4 of the income he made before for almost as much work.
I work full-time and am extremely tired because of pregnancy and then looking after my son if I'm not working. I make a pretty normal civil servant's salary. We have to watch every single dollar that we make and budget really well. I will go on maternity leave at the beginning of March and will not receive maternity pay for 10 weeks. For the past 4 months we have had to save every single dollar we can so we can survive (pay rent, pay utilities, food, education, public transport etc.) while we are not bringing in any income this Spring. We haven't had a holiday outside of Hong Kong in two years (last time we got a free trip to Taiwan for 3 days) and I have not been able to return to my home country to see family for two years because the cost was too high and we didn't have the money. We don't eat out very much and when we do it's nearly always local and cheap food. We don't have any luxuries. We live in a very affordable place although it is not so convenient and close to the city. We walk a lot. We take the bus. We don't have a car.
But, above all, our home is OUR HOME. It might not be much by other peoples' standard but it's OUR PLACE. You will never know peace until you really go home to your OWN HOME that you pay for with your OWN MONEY and your OWN HARD WORK at the end of the day.
So, you have to decide what you REALLY WANT. By your post and your responses, I think you think that you want to move to Sydney but you seem a bit delusional about what that really means--especially if you really do cut the umbilical cord from your parents and take care of yourself on your own. It seems like a very nice dream and maybe once you're a bit more mature you'll be able to manage it but at this point...hmmmm....debatable.
So you need to first be honest with yourself? If I had a comfortable lifestyle like you seem to be enjoying (helpers, holidays, no expenses) then it sure would be hard for me to give that up so that I could finally become an adult. It's hard when you have a "sugar daddy" or "sugar mama"--very tempting. It would be a hard decision, I think.
So, only you know what is really honest. You might want to ask yourself some questions and answer them honestly and then make a decision. You'll have to be pretty brave to "leave the nest" but I am living proof that you can and be satisfied.
Ask: Do you want to have self-confidence by overcoming hard times (this only happens if you actually expose yourself to hardship--you never know how strong you are until you're tested)? Do you want to have peace in your mind and authority over your own life and your own child? Do you want to create your own life or continue to live someone else's (your parents)?
Just as QuasiMother said, many people say they want to have this type of self-respect but they aren't willing to let themselves go through any type of suffering so they remain this way into their 40s. If you want to know the sweetness of life you have to have some bitter to go along with it. Right now, I don't think you've actually tasted bitterness and the "reality" of life (or life for a lot of us in HK).
And remember, if you can survive on your own here in HK, you can survive anywhere in the world so when the time comes for you to go back to Australia you'll actually have some wisdom and life experience to guide you--you can't really get that in your current situation.
I love my parents-in-law although they are not well-off like your parents seem to be (4 helpers?! what?!) but there was a time for us to live with them and then a time for us to leave. My husband worked for his father's company for four years and even then he always felt he was "living off of" his parents (even though, I never saw it that way as he worked very hard and had to spend considerable time away from the family working in Mainland China). My husband left that stable income and position this year in August because he felt it was time to really "stand on his own feet."
I am 8 months pregnant with our second child. Our 3-year-old is in a local kindergarten and we receive the government subsidy so we pay $800 HKD/month for a great education for him (and it is really a great school). Every HK person has the potential to take advantage of this subsidy--it's one of the few tax breaks that the government actually gives to young families. My husband has only been able to work part-time at nights since August--he doesn't bring in much money but for him he finally feels free and he also feels like "a man." This is worth more to us than a stable wage, honestly because our relationship is so much better now. He's not depressed even though he makes probably less than 1/4 of the income he made before for almost as much work.
I work full-time and am extremely tired because of pregnancy and then looking after my son if I'm not working. I make a pretty normal civil servant's salary. We have to watch every single dollar that we make and budget really well. I will go on maternity leave at the beginning of March and will not receive maternity pay for 10 weeks. For the past 4 months we have had to save every single dollar we can so we can survive (pay rent, pay utilities, food, education, public transport etc.) while we are not bringing in any income this Spring. We haven't had a holiday outside of Hong Kong in two years (last time we got a free trip to Taiwan for 3 days) and I have not been able to return to my home country to see family for two years because the cost was too high and we didn't have the money. We don't eat out very much and when we do it's nearly always local and cheap food. We don't have any luxuries. We live in a very affordable place although it is not so convenient and close to the city. We walk a lot. We take the bus. We don't have a car.
But, above all, our home is OUR HOME. It might not be much by other peoples' standard but it's OUR PLACE. You will never know peace until you really go home to your OWN HOME that you pay for with your OWN MONEY and your OWN HARD WORK at the end of the day.
So, you have to decide what you REALLY WANT. By your post and your responses, I think you think that you want to move to Sydney but you seem a bit delusional about what that really means--especially if you really do cut the umbilical cord from your parents and take care of yourself on your own. It seems like a very nice dream and maybe once you're a bit more mature you'll be able to manage it but at this point...hmmmm....debatable.
So you need to first be honest with yourself? If I had a comfortable lifestyle like you seem to be enjoying (helpers, holidays, no expenses) then it sure would be hard for me to give that up so that I could finally become an adult. It's hard when you have a "sugar daddy" or "sugar mama"--very tempting. It would be a hard decision, I think.
So, only you know what is really honest. You might want to ask yourself some questions and answer them honestly and then make a decision. You'll have to be pretty brave to "leave the nest" but I am living proof that you can and be satisfied.
Ask: Do you want to have self-confidence by overcoming hard times (this only happens if you actually expose yourself to hardship--you never know how strong you are until you're tested)? Do you want to have peace in your mind and authority over your own life and your own child? Do you want to create your own life or continue to live someone else's (your parents)?
Just as QuasiMother said, many people say they want to have this type of self-respect but they aren't willing to let themselves go through any type of suffering so they remain this way into their 40s. If you want to know the sweetness of life you have to have some bitter to go along with it. Right now, I don't think you've actually tasted bitterness and the "reality" of life (or life for a lot of us in HK).
And remember, if you can survive on your own here in HK, you can survive anywhere in the world so when the time comes for you to go back to Australia you'll actually have some wisdom and life experience to guide you--you can't really get that in your current situation.
constancefaith
Registered User
No, no. We live in a 10,000 sq house in the village. One is the gardener, and one is the driver.
As for my schooling, my parents were poor to begin with, and after they had my two sisters they started a business and we became sort of wealthy.
Studying in Australia would be much easier for us (temporarily) because government pays for all tuition fees, and we'd be able to apply for government funds to assist us financially.
Reason why I actually posted this thread was, the BOTH of us needs to be independent. And I feel whether we move out or not move out in Hong Kong, the BOTH of us will still rely on my parents in some way (little or big). We don't asks my parents for money, but they pay for our living because let's face it, we can't afford it. And 4 helpers? yeah, I was shocked. I understand my mom's intention is solely based on my best interest. She wants me to live an easy life. Which I do appreciate, but when I suggest cutting off helpers and let me pay for some of the bills, she refuses and just point blank say I won't be able to and that I can't even look after my daughter.
I don't leave the parenting to the helper, and that is why I put off looking for a "real job". I fear that my daughter will have traits of other people, because I'm not the one raising her.
I do have to disagree with you though Carang, although I am getting paid more than I should be from my mom's company, I complete what she wants to be done. Hubby and I argue over things like him not completing tasks my parents asks him to, being late to work, him being "impolite" to my parents... I do realize I will have to get a part time or full time job. I just wanted to wait till at least daughter goes to pre-school so during the hours I work she'd be in "school".
As for my schooling, my parents were poor to begin with, and after they had my two sisters they started a business and we became sort of wealthy.
Studying in Australia would be much easier for us (temporarily) because government pays for all tuition fees, and we'd be able to apply for government funds to assist us financially.
Reason why I actually posted this thread was, the BOTH of us needs to be independent. And I feel whether we move out or not move out in Hong Kong, the BOTH of us will still rely on my parents in some way (little or big). We don't asks my parents for money, but they pay for our living because let's face it, we can't afford it. And 4 helpers? yeah, I was shocked. I understand my mom's intention is solely based on my best interest. She wants me to live an easy life. Which I do appreciate, but when I suggest cutting off helpers and let me pay for some of the bills, she refuses and just point blank say I won't be able to and that I can't even look after my daughter.
I don't leave the parenting to the helper, and that is why I put off looking for a "real job". I fear that my daughter will have traits of other people, because I'm not the one raising her.
I do have to disagree with you though Carang, although I am getting paid more than I should be from my mom's company, I complete what she wants to be done. Hubby and I argue over things like him not completing tasks my parents asks him to, being late to work, him being "impolite" to my parents... I do realize I will have to get a part time or full time job. I just wanted to wait till at least daughter goes to pre-school so during the hours I work she'd be in "school".
constancefaith
Registered User
Thank you very much thanka, for sharing your experience. I really was reading every single word that you typed and you have more than motivated me and convinced me that anything is possible as long as the three of us stick together.
I had doubts if we will ever survive on our own.
Though, I think I didn't quite point out why I'm so keen on going back to Australia.
Firstly, both of us were raised there. It is truly HOME for the both of us.
Secondly, we love it there and we hate it here in Hong Kong. We don't drink or go out at nights, we enjoy parks and the nature.
Thirdly, we are dying for independence.. being able to take care of ourselves!
And honestly, this life is easy. But I was never the type to be happily living under other people's roof. I hate hand outs, and I am very surprised at myself to have stayed in HK for so long under my parents.
I WANT to take care of my daughter on my own, and I WANT to do it all on my own. If other moms can do it, so can I. If it means hard work then sure! I have the energy and I have the heart to give my daughter the best she deserves.
If it means I have to take care of my daughter during the day, study then go to night shifts while hubby takes care of daughter. Be it.
It may be easy to say, I don't know. But I believe if other people can do it, so can I.
Though, leaving my parents all by themselves in HK is unbearable...
I had doubts if we will ever survive on our own.
Though, I think I didn't quite point out why I'm so keen on going back to Australia.
Firstly, both of us were raised there. It is truly HOME for the both of us.
Secondly, we love it there and we hate it here in Hong Kong. We don't drink or go out at nights, we enjoy parks and the nature.
Thirdly, we are dying for independence.. being able to take care of ourselves!
And honestly, this life is easy. But I was never the type to be happily living under other people's roof. I hate hand outs, and I am very surprised at myself to have stayed in HK for so long under my parents.
I WANT to take care of my daughter on my own, and I WANT to do it all on my own. If other moms can do it, so can I. If it means hard work then sure! I have the energy and I have the heart to give my daughter the best she deserves.
If it means I have to take care of my daughter during the day, study then go to night shifts while hubby takes care of daughter. Be it.
It may be easy to say, I don't know. But I believe if other people can do it, so can I.
Though, leaving my parents all by themselves in HK is unbearable...
You're welcome. I didn't grow up in Hong Kong and we ended up here almost on accident. I never intended to live here long-term. I grew up in a place with wide, open, beautiful, blue skies and clean air. I grew up in a place with genuine hospitality and friendliness where you feel like you're a neighbor with everyone. I know the quality of life you're talking about. I now know that I will never move back there with my family and have left that dream behind. I do long for the day (was actually praying to God today to make a way for us to leave HK eventually) when we can leave Hong Kong because honestly, the air pollution is killing me and I feel guilty exposing my son and unborn daughter to it (people in our village burn their trash in the open--including plastics several times a week). We hope to someday move but we are living in the reality of now, not the dreams of the future. I find that as I get older, I live more in reality than in dreams (I used to live a lot in dreams). I can understand why you want to go back to Australia and of course you do, but I still think for your own good you need to start now with the reality. What can you do today? What can you do this week? What can you do this month? In the next six months? In a year? Start in Hong Kong because this is where you're at--you need to prove to yourself that you can make it here before you decide to go back to Australia--especially if you are really sincere about cutting off the safety net of your parents' finances.
Make a list of the things you need to change in order to become independent and then one-by-one just start doing those things. Talk is good but action is a lot better for you. Start with the most manageable things and work toward the more complicated ones. For example, choose a different school for your daughter and apply for the government subsidy (priority deadline is the end of May). You may say "But, my mom...." If so, remember that YOU are the mother of your child, not your own mother--no matter how involved she is in your daughter's life.
Then go look at flats and get an idea of what's out there in HK. Crunch the numbers on paper--make legitimate plans with your husband and then see them through. Whether your parents like it or not, you do need to move out and you need to do so soon--don't wait for the "Australian dream" to come true.
Start looking into hiring a helper to take care of your daughter (one that you'll pay yourself because you need to have complete authority over her care--not depend on your mother's choices). Take a job outside your mother's company. Make your studies your priority right now. Like it or not, at some point you're going to have to let others "characteristics rub off on" your daughter--you can't keep her in a bubble--you seem okay with letting your mother spend a lot of time with your daughter so why not choose someone that you like as a helper and do the same thing?
Your husband should start looking for work elsewhere as well. These are all the hard choices that will lead to independence. And finally, move out--even if you have to live in Sham Shui Po in a 200-square-foot room with cockroaches, you need to move out and make do with what you have.
But, this is only if you're really serious about becoming independent. The real issue here, in my opinion, is not Hong Kong vs. Australia--the real issue is dependence vs. independence. If you really want independence you should make that your priority immediately irregardless of whether you're in Australia or HK.
constancefaith
Registered User
thanka, thank you so much for spending your time on my problem.
I agree with you, we're in a situation where we want to stop depending on my parents. And you are also right about starting now. We have a flat in Gold coast on mortgage, and we planned to move into that flat before the thought of going back to Sydney emerges.
Staying or leaving, we HAVE to start working towards being independent. And everyone here really helped us realize that independence is what we NEED.
I'm guessing everyone does agree that Australia is a better place for a child to grow up in then?
I agree with you, we're in a situation where we want to stop depending on my parents. And you are also right about starting now. We have a flat in Gold coast on mortgage, and we planned to move into that flat before the thought of going back to Sydney emerges.
Staying or leaving, we HAVE to start working towards being independent. And everyone here really helped us realize that independence is what we NEED.
I'm guessing everyone does agree that Australia is a better place for a child to grow up in then?
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