Deciding between a natural birth or planned c-section: Pros & cons?

@ lesliefu

Is it Dr Richard Ooi? He did my epidural when i delivered last year. The discomfort and pain was minimum. He is very patient and make me feel comfortable with it.

@ charade

You're right with the epidural thing. I didnt feel ashame of taking the epidural becoz i had back pain for more than 12 hours and i kind of know i wont be able to push effectively let alone have to deal with more pain. Before they give me my 2nd dose of epidural, i felt pain in between and i'm so glad that i had epidural.

After my delivery, in less that 12 hours, i was "up and running" doing breastfeeding in the hospital. Yes, i've got some stiches, but i think i can deal with the pain more than those labour pain.
 
I wish I had known how to go about insisting on the epidural in the public system. it's the one thing that would make me go private. OK and also the awful doctor who said to me "please, the pain isn't even that much" when i was in the throes of labour. Luckily I didn't see her after that and the midwives did the actual delivery and were awesome.

@lesliefu one thing about the public system is that you don't have a choice about c-sec. They will decide if it's medically necessary (and I think they're quite good about making that decision if needed) and I was completely confident that I would not be pushed into a c-sec otherwise.
 
I've posted a lot of things on this topic in the past two months. I am pregnant with my second child. My first child was born completely naturally without pain medications and I was in labor for 43 hours and also hemorrhaged afterward.

If I had it to do over again (the same birth), although because of experience I would have done some things differently, I would always choose a natural, unmedicated birth. I believe that is what I owe myself and my child.

I can tell you that I was fully conscious and aware during the birth of my son and that it was a profound and changing moment in my life. It was the most empowering event in my life so far and as my midwife told me afterward, "Now, you can do anything." I truly can do anything after that experience. There is a TON of information out there about the facts about what childbirth is. I encourage you not to give into the media hype (all the shows on TV like: A Baby Story, I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant, Deliver Me, One Born Every Minute as well as films like Knocked up etc.). We all know that "if it bleeds, it leads" (newspaper term) and every producer needs to get drama up there on the screen to get ratings. Hollywood is not reality.

Here is just a sampling of the things I've posted here on this site within the last 2-3 months (some older), including studies, statistics, documentaries, illustrated guides and videos. Do your own research and don't let fear stand in your way--fear is the number one enemy of birth--in order to embrace birth and have a good experience you have to not be crippled by fear--no matter how many horror stories you hear (and people sure like to tell them, right?)--the problem is you're not hearing the empowering, miracle stories that are out there (and there are plenty--you can find many samples below).

So, check out the resources below and :flower:be inspired:flower:--birth is a beautiful thing and it is not just about babies being born--mothers are also born when they give birth. Women are strong. You are strong and your body is capable of giving birth well--don't let anyone or anything convince you otherwise.

As far as the HK hospital system goes when it comes to birth--I can understand how you feel overwhelmed. I am not a huge fan of how things are done here in HK and with my first pregnancy I was so overwhelmed by everything that I chose to return to my home country to give birth.

This time, I'm older and wiser and I'm giving the HK system a go--but on my terms--which means I've had to plan very well this time. I am optimistic that anything is possible with the right preparation and resources. You can always PM me if you want more info.

Finally, CONGRATULATIONS on your pregnancy! ​


Resources


If You're Going To Give Birth, Watch This (link to full online documentary for: The Business of Being Born)

Orgasmic Birth (20/20 video)
Orgasmic Birth (article)
Great Resource for Pregnant Ladies (videos by "Mother of Modern Midwifery" Ina May Gaskin)
Let Your Birth Experience Be Inspired (wonderful compilation of real-life birth experiences--videos)
Free Downloadable Healthy Birth Guide by Choices in Childbirth
Benefits of Vaginal Birth for Mother and Baby
Reducing Infant Mortality
Unnecesarean and ICAN (great website resources)
Birth Brain Injury: Etiology and Prevention
7 Signs of a Bad Doctor (selecting a doctor)
The Win-Win Birth Plan
Nice Printable Guide for Labor Positions
Pregnancy Blogs Worth Checking Out
Outlaw Births
Male Doctor Experiences Childbirth Pain
 
NicoleJoy totally agree about the episiotomy- I had one with my first birth as it was a forceps delivery with epidural and it took quite a while to heal. Second with 2nd degree tear I didn't even feel when it happened (no drugs) and it healed really quickly. Also agree with your comments about c sections, especially as you say you can have an epidural if the pain gets too much.
Thanka2 was waiting for your post on this as I know you have posted some great links on this recently, especially the Business of Being Born; I really hope RileyC watches it as it is so spot on.
 
NicoleJoy totally agree about the episiotomy- I had one with my first birth as it was a forceps delivery with epidural and it took quite a while to heal. Second with 2nd degree tear I didn't even feel when it happened (no drugs) and it healed really quickly. Also agree with your comments about c sections, especially as you say you can have an epidural if the pain gets too much.
Thanka2 was waiting for your post on this as I know you have posted some great links on this recently, especially the Business of Being Born; I really hope RileyC watches it as it is so spot on.

Yes, the Business of Being Born is a fantastic documentary. I watched it once by myself and once with my husband. I also have ordered all of Ina May Gaskin's books (from ShopinHK.com) and can't wait to read what she's written. So inspiring.

Regarding episiotomies. In the 12-week birth course my husband I took the instructor gave a simple demonstration: She folded a piece of paper in half and then asked one of us to rip it along the folded line. The paper ripped quite easily. Then she gave us an unfolded piece of paper and asked us to tear it from top to bottom--of course it was possible to tear it but ti definitely didn't tear as fast as the folded piece of paper. So it is with episiotomies. If your perinium is going to tear, it's going to tear but the likelihood that it will tear further and deeper increases with the help of a scalpel to start the process. If you want to avoid perinial tears (most midwives working in home settings NEVER see perinial l tears or perform episiotomies) there are some things you can do including:

1. Don't wear underwear. I know, I know, sounds all risque and stuff but it's not. We all have to wear panties at some point but don't wear them when you don't have to (to sleep in, around the house when you don't have guests etc.) Wearing underwear traps unnecessary moisture and can cause your skin to become brittle and somewhat chapped. There is a great example from the book "Husband-Coached Childbirth" where the doctor is the OBGYN for a woman who lives in a nudist colony and he said she had one of the healthiest perinial areas because it was constantly exposed to "the elements."

2. Do your Kiegel exercises faithfully
--it strengthens the pelvic floor and makes the perineum stronger and more flexible.

3. Perform perineal massage with a natural oil (olive oil) from at least week 36 onward for at least 5 minutes every day.

4. Use warm compresses on the perinium throughout labor as well as oil massage to prepare the area for the "big stretch" (thanks, Baby Mama).

5. Don't lay back during labor. In other words, do not let your practitioner or anyone else force you into the Lithotomy Position and this is why. Your chance of both tearing or having an episiotomy goes up substantially in this position. Alternatively, get into the most vertical position possible (squat, kneel, stand, sit)--it opens up everything "down there" and helps to prevent tearing.
 
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If you don't want to tear....

NicoleJoy totally agree about the episiotomy- I had one with my first birth as it was a forceps delivery with epidural and it took quite a while to heal. Second with 2nd degree tear I didn't even feel when it happened (no drugs) and it healed really quickly. Also agree with your comments about c sections, especially as you say you can have an epidural if the pain gets too much.
Thanka2 was waiting for your post on this as I know you have posted some great links on this recently, especially the Business of Being Born; I really hope RileyC watches it as it is so spot on.

Yes, the Business of Being Born is a fantastic documentary. I watched it once by myself and once with my husband. I also have ordered all of Ina May Gaskin's books (from ShopinHK.com) and can't wait to read what she's written. So inspiring.

Regarding episiotomies. In the 12-week birth course my husband I took the instructor gave a simple demonstration: She folded a piece of paper in half and then asked one of us to rip it along the folded line. The paper ripped quite easily. Then she gave us an unfolded piece of paper and asked us to tear it from top to bottom--of course it was possible to tear it but ti definitely didn't tear as fast as the folded piece of paper. So it is with episiotomies. If your perinium is going to tear, it's going to tear but the likelihood that it will tear further and deeper increases with the help of a scalpel to start the process. If you want to avoid perinial tears (most midwives working in home settings NEVER see perinial l tears or perform episiotomies) there are some things you can do including:

1. Don't wear underwear. I know, I know, sounds all risque and stuff but it's not. We all have to wear panties at some point but don't wear them when you don't have to (to sleep in, around the house when you don't have guests etc.) Wearing underwear traps unnecessary moisture and can cause your skin to become brittle and somewhat chapped. There is a great example from the book "Husband-Coached Childbirth" where the doctor is the OBGYN for a woman who lives in a nudist colony and he said she had one of the healthiest perinial areas because it was constantly exposed to "the elements."


2. Do your Kiegel exercises faithfully
--it strengthens the pelvic floor and makes the perineum stronger and more flexible.

3. Perform perineal massage with a natural oil (olive oil) from at least week 36 onward for at least 5 minutes every day.

4. Use warm compresses on the perinium throughout labor as well as oil massage to prepare the area for the "big stretch" (thanks, Baby Mama).

5. Don't lay back during labor. In other words, do not let your practitioner or anyone else force you into the Lithotomy Position and this is why. Your chance of both tearing or having an episiotomy goes up substantially in this position. Alternatively, get into the most vertical position possible (squat, kneel, stand, sit)--it opens up everything "down there" and helps to prevent tearing.

Just a bit of a quote of why this position (which is what the hospitals in HK favor) is such a BAD idea all around (however, it is convenient for your doctor because he/she can sit there comfortably and not have to be inconvenienced much)

Roberto Caldeyro-Barcia, past president of the International Federation of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, states unequivocally, "Except for being hanged by the feet, the supine position is the worst conceivable position for labor and delivery" (1975:11). There are a number of problems generated by this position: (1) it focuses most of the woman's body weight squarely on her tailbone, forcing it forward and thereby narrowing the pelvic outlet, which both increases the length of labor and makes delivery more difficult (Balaskas and Balaskas 1983:8); (2) it compresses major blood vessels, interfering with circulation and decreasing blood pressure, which in turn lowers oxygen supply to the fetus (for example, several studies have reported that in the majority of women delivering in the lithotomy position, there was a 91% decrease in fetal transcutaneous oxygen saturation (Humphrey et al. 1973, 1974; Johnstone et al. 1987; Kurz et al. 1982); (3) contractions tend to be weaker, less frequent, and more irregular in this position, and pushing is harder to do because increased force is needed to work against gravity (Hugo 1977), making forceps extraction more likely and increasing the potential for physical injury to the baby; (4) placing the legs wide apart in stirrups can result in venous thrombosis or nerve compression from the pressure of the leg supports, while increasing both the need for episiotomy and the likelihood of tears because of excessive stretching of the perineal tissue and tension on the pelvic floor (McKay and Mahan 1984).
 
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I wish I had known how to go about insisting on the epidural in the public system. it's the one thing that would make me go private. OK and also the awful doctor who said to me "please, the pain isn't even that much" when i was in the throes of labour. Luckily I didn't see her after that and the midwives did the actual delivery and were awesome.

With my second, I just insisted. Even when they needed to do vacuum delivery, I wouldn't let them do an episiotomy. They cannot do it without your consent (unless it is a true emergency, and even then I'm not sure about what they can do legally if you have insisted on no episiotomy) - so all you need to do is to make it clear that you do not want it and their hands are tied. They cannot do it without your consent.

With my first, I didn't really care either way - they told me it would make her come a bit quicker and at that stage, I was thinking ANYTHING to make her come quicker! (they had turned off the epidural for that stage of labour and I was having really bad back labour due to her being face up instead of face down). If I could change anything about my labour, it would be the choice to have an episiotomy.

With my second, I bargained a lot more with the midwives. They said "We think you should do this" and I said "No, how about this instead". Knowledge is power and being the second time around, I was a lot more prepared and knew what WAS important and was NOT important to me. You are the boss, even in the public hospitals!
 
Agreed, being induced makes way worse contractions. I had 3 on top of each other, for more than 5 min total. Not fun. That one, emerg c-section, couldn't hold baby for 6 hours, but no problem bonding. This one, planned c-section(in public), and bonded immediately. I was ecstatic the moment she was lifted from me, my little angel. She got to breastfeed within 45 minutes. It was love at first sight.
Any way birth happens is painful and downright barbaric. But we recover, and are the better for it.
 
Experiences vary so much, it really is difficult to effectively use other people's experience other than to vaguely inform your own decision. Over the course of your pregnancy, you will likely have a feeling of what is right for you. Just go with it.

As for me, I had two natural deliveries (both at Matilda with same OB). For the first, I had an epidural and one top up. With the top up, my contractions slowed down so much that they actually had to give me pictosin (sp?) to kick start labor again and ensure that I didn't have an emergency c. The contractions were pretty darn painful after that and I wondered how much more painful a drug free delivery would have been. For #2, I decided to go without the epidural for as long as I could and ended up with a faster (slightly more painful, but MUCH faster, drug-free delivery). Another poster above had two top ups with no problem (same hospital as me), so you never know.

I have friends who had planned c-sections (not for medical reasons) and don't feel like they missed out on anything. For me, having had the natural experience and later seeing their heads pushing through and their little face popping out (yes, we have video), was pretty amazing. For what it's worth, a friend who had one of each found her recovery from a c-section not to be a big deal at all.

Another poster mentioned people exaggerating. I think that part of the issue is that until you experience it, you can't really appreciate what they are talking about. 10-20 hours of labor sounds unbearable, but it's not. The intensity of labor can be all over the map. From the first contraction until delivery, I was actually "in labor" longer with my second but the period of intense pain and pushing was much shorter. @15 hours of with the first and @20 with the second but during that period, I went out to lunch!
 

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