BCG vaccine, yes or no?
- Thread starter titti
- Start date
I am pro-vax, but do not believe in the benefits or the effectiveness of the BCG vaccin. Does that make me a bad mother? They're parents that don't even give their children a single vaccination! Do I agree, no. Would I do that, no. But it's their decision. I see people putting their young children in the front seat without a proper car seat. Would I do that? No. Is breastfeeding best? Yes. Did I do it? No. There are a lot of personal decisions, you may or may not agree with it. To each their own. We can only educate ourselves and eachother in a respectful way, but it's our own decision in the end.
Even though BCG is one of the oldest vaccinations around, the effectiveness is highly debated, as high as 80% to sometimes as low as 50-60% or even lower (there have been studies with effectiveness rates as low as 20%). Also when not given at birth the effectiveness decreases even more over time, hence the advice from my HK doctor (and my 2nd HK opinion) not to vaccinate my 4 1/2 yo at the time, and she was on the fence for the almost 2 yo. I decided against it. Please respect my personal decision and I'll respect yours.
Even though BCG is one of the oldest vaccinations around, the effectiveness is highly debated, as high as 80% to sometimes as low as 50-60% or even lower (there have been studies with effectiveness rates as low as 20%). Also when not given at birth the effectiveness decreases even more over time, hence the advice from my HK doctor (and my 2nd HK opinion) not to vaccinate my 4 1/2 yo at the time, and she was on the fence for the almost 2 yo. I decided against it. Please respect my personal decision and I'll respect yours.
howardcoombs
Registered User
When faced with a decision which has no practical downside and a possible small, maybe medium and perhaps a big upside, I will pick to go with it.
I understand you choose the other direction; I'm not about to question a parents decision; its between yourself and your family. Your child, your rules and your decision.
However, up to now you've told us that famous doctors friend as well as 2 other doctors here in Hong Kong all concurred and decided to advise you against it. Can you please tell me more about what they said. What was the downside they saw in recommending that you not do this?
I find it very odd and very strange. Its same as if I heard a doctor saying "dont do Mammograms because their effectiveness is under question, it doesnt work for everyone, very few people are saved, the death rate from breast cancer has decreased by almost 30%, women will suffer from significant psychological stress due to false posivitive results etc etc etc" ; those are all true statements and they are backed by studies. Its fine if a doctor tells you about them and lets you make the decision but to advise you and push you in one direction; I would find that very strange and I would question the motives of the doctor.
Could you please let us know what (if there was anything else) they told you as a downside to cause them to give such advice? Without any major downside, I find such advice to be odd to say the least.
erina320
Registered User
An interesting side note* I took both of my girls in today to get their BCG vaccines and the doctor told me himself that they may not be necessary and that TB is not that common in Hong Kong any longer. He referred me to a pediatrician so we'll have to wait and see what the specialist says.
howardcoombs
Registered User
"may not be necessary" is not advice. Its just waffling. Your doctor doesnt want to give advice on this specific topic so they are passing it to a specialist so he doesn't need to deal with it.
A point to note : 1n 2003, there were 8000 cases of SARS in HKG and everyone was alarmed.
In 2010, there were more than 5000 cases of TB in HKG and according to some posts here, there are doctors that are dismissing it as "not that common"
8000 is a pandemic but 5000 is not that common?
Something doesnt add up here.
A point to note : 1n 2003, there were 8000 cases of SARS in HKG and everyone was alarmed.
In 2010, there were more than 5000 cases of TB in HKG and according to some posts here, there are doctors that are dismissing it as "not that common"
8000 is a pandemic but 5000 is not that common?
Something doesnt add up here.
We have chosen not to get BCG vaccine for our baby who was recently born in HK. Although this is not a reason, no-one else in our family has had it as we were all born overseas - including our 4 year old.
Baby had no vaccinations as a newborn as I didn't think either Hep B or BCG were necessary in the first 48 hours of life. I wanted to establish bonding and bf and didn't want ANYTHING potentially disrupting that. It seems like quite a nasty shot and I was not willing to inflict it on my newborn. The government website states that it is a live vaccine and should not be given to those whose immunity is compromised. Newborn surely have compromised immunity therefore I was not comfortable with it personally.
With regards to TB, it is certainly a scary disease and obviously much more common in HK than the countries we came from. However it is concentrated in a particular portion of the population and is associated with overcrowded living conditions and thus poor hygiene/ventilation that tends to accompany it. Many of the cases reported in HK may have come in from outside the city - i.e. they were not contracted here. So what I'm saying is that the cases are not spread evenly within the population but rather concentrated among some groups. I saw an article in the SCMP recently which outlined the extremely high rate in Sham Shui Po due to the caged homes and cramped partitioned flats. The HK govt website states that you generally need prolonged exposure to someone with an active case of TB before you can contract it - and it seems it is those with compromised immunity that are mainly at risk.
The govt vaccinates all newborns against TB not because all are at risk, but it is a catch-all solution. I don't blame them - it is easier than trying to obtain the risk profile of every newborn and trying to ascertain their likelihood of contracting it. It is the same for Hep B which also has specific risk factors (like needle sharing and prostitution) - while there is almost a zero chance of a newborn or even a child contracting it they all receive the vaccination in order to ensure the whole population grows up with immunity.
Baby had no vaccinations as a newborn as I didn't think either Hep B or BCG were necessary in the first 48 hours of life. I wanted to establish bonding and bf and didn't want ANYTHING potentially disrupting that. It seems like quite a nasty shot and I was not willing to inflict it on my newborn. The government website states that it is a live vaccine and should not be given to those whose immunity is compromised. Newborn surely have compromised immunity therefore I was not comfortable with it personally.
With regards to TB, it is certainly a scary disease and obviously much more common in HK than the countries we came from. However it is concentrated in a particular portion of the population and is associated with overcrowded living conditions and thus poor hygiene/ventilation that tends to accompany it. Many of the cases reported in HK may have come in from outside the city - i.e. they were not contracted here. So what I'm saying is that the cases are not spread evenly within the population but rather concentrated among some groups. I saw an article in the SCMP recently which outlined the extremely high rate in Sham Shui Po due to the caged homes and cramped partitioned flats. The HK govt website states that you generally need prolonged exposure to someone with an active case of TB before you can contract it - and it seems it is those with compromised immunity that are mainly at risk.
The govt vaccinates all newborns against TB not because all are at risk, but it is a catch-all solution. I don't blame them - it is easier than trying to obtain the risk profile of every newborn and trying to ascertain their likelihood of contracting it. It is the same for Hep B which also has specific risk factors (like needle sharing and prostitution) - while there is almost a zero chance of a newborn or even a child contracting it they all receive the vaccination in order to ensure the whole population grows up with immunity.