anyone else using gina ford? help please.

[onesarah]

Hi ladies

I successfully used the Gina Ford book and routine with my first son and am now trying it with my second, who is two weeks old.

Structuring the feeds (bottle) is going well but he is unable to stay awake for longer than 1 hour around feed time. He is also very restless and crying from around 8pm, and does not settle until his next feed at 10pm. We have tried letting him cry (which he can for almost 1 hour and then we give in!) and also using a dummy to settle him - he settles but then wakes up when we put him back in his bed. I am quite sure his isnt hungry when he first awakes, as he has a good full split feed at 5pm & 6.15pm.

Two questions please -

1. How to keep him awake longer in the day ( I suspect it will come with time.)
2. How long can you let a newborn cry for?Its awful hearing him scream for so long but think he just wants attention and a cuddle and am wary on giving in!

Thanks in advance
Sarah

 

[shuchisingh]

two weeks ? :O do you really want to try cio and sleep traning at this age ?

even ferber advices against it and most paediatricians would tell you not to interfere with babies' sleeping pattern.

sorry for sounding so harsh... but please wait till he's older. please cuddle him and give him as much attention as you physically can. they need it and become so much more secure coz of it.

have you tried dr. spocks ?

 

[Smiles]

We vaguely followed Gina Ford in the beginning but found some of her timing were just not going to work with our little one.

1. Our daughter could only manage an hour awake at a time when she was really little but as she got bigger it gradually increased.

2. Best thing my mum gave me was a timer. We only ever set it for about 2 minutes (which I imagine for a newborn might seem like forever). It does mean constantly going in and out of the bedroom but we would settle her first with either gentle pat on chest and 'shh' or with dummy then retreat. When she woke up we'd set timer for 2 minutes (although I think we may have even started with just 1 minute!)then repeat. We'd often spend all evening (from bedtime until next feed at 10pm) doing this but the great thing is that now she is a great sleeper as she has learnt how to resettle herself.

I think with Gina Ford take it all with a pinch of salt and when you feel yourself getting too obsessed or worried with her timings just put the book away for a while. Every baby is different and some just do things their own way...

Good luck!

 

[LeahH]

Hi, we're in exactly the same position. My first was a perfect Gina baby, number 2 now 12 weeks did not play ball early on but is getting better slowly.

Up until 6-8 weeks he also couldn't stay awake for very long, not even for 1 hour. I settled for keeping his feeds on schedule and putting in extra short naps either side of the long afternoon nap to ensure we ended up at the right bed time. I think I did pose this question on the GF website last time around and they said babies should 'stay awake UP to 2 hours' - it's by no means the norm for them to stay awake the full 2 hours so early on.

Now, at 12 weeks, he can stay awake the full 2 hours most of the time, but towards the end of the day drops off early. I still put an extra nap in if that happens - or if he wakes early and we are end up way ahead of schedule.

We also had very fussy evening's early on and tried tentative crying down (up to 7 mins) but stopped as I couldn't rule out pain as the factor (potential reflux, he's also very hard to wind) and colic. It's improved as time has gone on, but he's now super dependant on the dummy to sleep (which falls out and he then wakes up..) so I have made a problem to fix later on...

One book I have says that for very young babies 5-10 mins 'crying down' is the norm - slightly longer if they are particularly overstimulated.

I agree with smiles that you should amend GF to suit your baby, also I think I probably had all these problems with no. 1 baby early on but didn't worry about it so early on as I had nothing to compare it to.

Good luck!

 

[AndreaY]

Both mine followed Gina Ford, pretty much to a T for the 1st year. Here's what I found, it is hard to make baby stay awake for the 1st 2-3 weeks, but then it gets much better, either they get used to trying to make them stay awake or they are just getting older. To try to make mine stay awake, there were a few things that I did (1) tickle their feet (2) stroke their backs (3) undo a layer of clothing so it's not so warm, but the one I found most effective was to stimulate them with black and white cloth books (at this stage) and later with dangling things on playmat. Whatever I did, it was done one at a time and not very loudly.

However, I would not let 2 week old cio, think Gina Ford also does not recommend that (I may have remembered wrong), it's way too young.

He is also very restless and crying from around 8pm, and does not settle until his next feed at 10pm. We have tried letting him cry (which he can for almost 1 hour and then we give in!) and also using a dummy to settle him - he settles but then wakes up when we put him back in his bed. I am quite sure his isnt hungry when he first awakes, as he has a good full split feed at 5pm & 6.15pm.

You mean you put him down to sleep at 7pm and he wakes up a 8pm? I put both mine down before they fall asleep as stated in the book, so am not sure exactly what you mean by "but then wakes up when we put him back in his bed". Also do you swaddle? You have not mentioned any problems with the rest of his routine, so that means it's only out of sync at 7pm? I am only asking cos with both mine, the time they settled the quickest was 7pm, probably cos it's after the milk and they were so tired.

 

[Shenzhennifer]

I`m sorry if my 2 cents sounds a bit harsh... but I got really sad when I read that you let your newborn cry for that long.
Babies that young are not trying to manipulate you - they just need something. And when they are 2 weeks old it`s probably milk. Your baby might just be cluster feeding -that`s totally normal. But he might just need milk. He`s only TWO weeks old. And how can he stay awake for an hour? that`s asking a lot of a little guy who but 2 weeks ago was comfortable in your belly.
I cannot believe Gina Ford is making any money if she is recommending mothers do this to their newborn babies at this stage.
So my answers are:
1) He will stay awake when he is ready.
2) You don`t.

I think you need to feed your baby and love him and give him lots of cuddles and kisses. Don`t worry about Gina.

 

[AussieMum]

Personally, I think these books are good for a little guidance, but try not to treat them as gospel or beat yourself up if they don't conform. I also followed a similar book (author was Tizzie Hall - Save our sleep). Admittedly, I didn't follow the routines until my baby was a little older (from around 4 months from memory) but when I did, she often threw me out on many occasions.
Your baby is still very young so I would tend at this stage to just try and listen to him, learn his crys, use the first few months to get to know each other and that way when you are ready to enforce routine (if he is not falling into his own by this stage) you will at least have an understanding of his needs and cries (ie, is he just wanting attention, does he have gas, is he hungry, etc) and be able to handle his needs a little better. Naturally you will both grow with experience.
Just my opinion anyway, best of luck with your new son.

 

[LeahH]

Just a point on the back of the above post, babies don't tend to cluster feed in the same way when they are bottle fed on a schedule. (they can if bottle feeding on demand which onesarah is not doing)

If you are bottle feeding it's much easier to rule out hunger as a reason for crying. It's also easy to potentially overfeed when bottlefeeding - e.g. using milk as an answer to unsettled behaviour and evening crying. You can end up with a whole set of other problems doing that...

Also, 'crying down' is not quite CIO (which is not recommended until 4 months in some books, 6 months in most others) but a last resort when a young bub is overstimulated, desparately needs to learn the 'trick' of falling asleep unaided and you have exhausted all other avenues and know that hunger, pain etc. are not factors.

 

[onesarah]

Thanks for your replies.
Please dont let this turn into an anti-Gina Ford/routine thread though. I have made the decision to try and follow the routine as it worked so well with my first son from week 1 and who was a very happy baby and always slept well.
I love my newborn hugely and what upsets me is hearing him cry when we have ruled out any possible problems and know he has fed well. His evening awekenings appear just to be from the fact he isnt able to resetttle himself to sleep and needs a cuddle to do so. We are very happy to do this, but also know from experience that he needs to learn to do this himself. He is swaddled and will almost instantly fall asleep on us when we lift him and then cries when we put him back in his cot.
Thanks LeahH for your comments and also Smile - I will try a timer!

 

[AndreaY]

ok, here's what I did, when I saw that baby was starting to doze off, I would put her down in cot, swaddle her and then pat her a little if she does not fall asleep within a couple of minutes. If they woke up and cry for more than a minute or two, I went in to pat them back to sleep in the dark.

I rarely picked them up to soothe, mostly cos generally not need to and also I did not want them to get into a habit of crying and knowing it means pick up time. On the odd occasions that they did not settle back to sleep, I did pick up, but no rocking, I just held them swaddled and slowly and gently pat them to soothe. Once they became calmer, I put them back in the cot and slowly patted a bit more until they dozed off, then sneaked out of room.

One thing I just remembered was that cos my 2 kids drank ebm from bottle, they finished quite quickly and tend to be sleepy after that. At the beginning few weeks, I did not make them stay up till 7pm. I would quietly try to entertain them to keep them awake, but if they are ready to sleep by 6:30, 6:45, so be it.