HK Rights - Unfair work conditions

[carang]

however, slamdunk, if the employer is overworking the employee and the employee reports this to her doctor who then says she needs a period of bedrest THAT is NOT gross misconduct. it is making sure the pregnant employee is getting enough rest, something the employers don't seem to think she needs.

 

[AndreaY]

however, slamdunk, if the employer is overworking the employee and the employee reports this to her doctor who then says she needs a period of bedrest THAT is NOT gross misconduct. it is making sure the pregnant employee is getting enough rest, something the employers don't seem to think she needs.

Agree, but in this case it sounded like it was a personal request for bedrest, rather than a medical opinion (I may be wrong). Also, I am not sure what rest the poster was allowed after her all nighter (full rest?), and whether she was required to do the all nighters before she was pregnant (ie she was on night shift?) etc etc.. I am not saying it's right, but if it's just her request for bedrest and not really a medical need, it may be treated as gross misconduct. It's just something that should be considered.

I can understand at 12 weeks, it must feel terrible, but the extreme tiredness felt at the beginning of pregnancy will hopefully go away soon. Short of getting the requisite medical certificate, maybe you can negotiate with your boss that if you are required to work long hours that you be also given enough time to rest before the next day of work?

 

[fingerscrossed]

agree with AndreaY. ask for shorter or more regular hours or half time even, if available. being frustrated over going to work isn't worth it so work something out with the bosses. if that doesn't work, is there someone more senior to talk to? they can't fire you so you've got the 'upper hand' now.

 

[starbucks2]

Hi

I know what you are going through! In my first pregnancy, I worked over 90 hours in the week that I told my employers I was pregnant (at 12 weeks). I work in an industry which is very client driven and all nights, weekends and long days are unfortunately part of the job. I also spoke to my specialist as I could not (and would not) keep up those hours. He was very receptive to writing me something to say I could only work a maximum number of hours a week (I had suggested 40 odd). I never needed it as once I told them, they tried to limit my deal exposure so that helped a lot but nice to know that I had it in my back pocket just in case.

If you think you need bed rest now then I say go for it but maybe also raise with your doctor the possibility of having him set a reasonable number of hours to work in a week which you can present to your employers.

Do you mind me asking what industry you work in?

Good luck
SB2

 

[NewMommie]

All, thanks for the great advice. Sorry I hadn't been back on this forum for awhile because I ended up going to my doctor and while I did not ask for bed rest explicitly, I told her my situation. She thankfully said the baby looked fine, but that continuing conditions like the ones I was being put through would eventually be bad. So I got a note like starbucks2 which recommended a 40 hour week. I gave it to my HR person who then contacted my partners (I am an IPO lawyer) and they have been good about my schedule since.

As to whether limiting my hours in this way means I'm not performing, well, I think it is certainly true that all nighters and long hours are part of my job. If there are coworkers who resent me right now, so be it - I have more important concerns, and I do try to be efficient in the time I am at work. Quite simply, I busted my ass for this law firm for over 4 years now, survived the layoffs, put in countless hours and made them a lot of money, so I think they can deal with me giving them a 'normal' workday for a few months.

One interesting thing that happened was that when I first gave my note to the HR lady, she suggested I voluntarily go on part-time program and reduce my salary and benefits. I was surprised and said I had been reading up on US laws (my law firm is CA based and I originated in a CA office before being transferred to their HK office) and pregnancy is treated as a 'temporary disability' in which if the employee needs to take time off or limit hours temporarily, the government will compensate for the difference. The employee should not suffer a reduction in salary or benefits. That is exactly what happened to my coworker in one of the US offices when she had to take 2 full months of bedrest. I was only requesting a normal working day. I think in HK the rules are different and once I said that seemed discriminatory to me, she backed off and then asked the head of HR in the US who confirmed that I could just limit my hours to 8 a day without having a reduction in my salary. Of course, I have still gone above those hours on many days, but try to at least work from home when it gets past 8 hours.

On a separate note, I really don't see how anyone has a normal working schedule and raises children in HK in my industry with the kind of work ethic/expectations they have here. I know where I was from before, there are plenty of moms working full-time for slightly less pay but normal working hours at companies. HK is just special I suppose.

 

[starbucks2]

Hi NewMommie

I am a lawyer too so know EXACTLY what you are going through (hence my 90 plus hours in the week I told them I was pregnant). Your experiences sounded so similiar to mine that I wondered if you were also a lawyer!! I had my baby almost 18 months ago and now pregnant with number 2. Because I didn't want to keep those hours up when the baby came, I decided to change to a professional support lawyer role (which is great as it is also part-time). I could not see how I could do a transactional legal role working those crazy hours and still have input in raising my child. It could be different in a different team (like litigation for example) and/or a different firm if there was willingness on the part of the partners to be proactive and forward-thinking. A friend of mine is still working in corporate law on a 3 day a week basis and seems to work for her as she has buy-in from her bosses. The women in my team at work and I have countless discussions on this issue and none of us can see how a transactional legal role in our practice area is possible if you still want to be a hands on mum. It is a shame as I do miss parts of the client facing role and the deal work (maybe once the kids are at school ....)

Can't believe that they suggested that you take a part time position and resultant pay cut because you are pregnant - very cheeky - no wonder she backed off when questioned!! A colleague of mine who is still a fee earner is in her last 2 months of pregnancy and had to have a chat to them as well as she was working until midnight every night and all weekend for months. Not acceptable when you are pregnant. I also agree that you may feel that your colleagues begrudge your reduced hours but I'd ignore that. They may not feel like that and if they do, then it is no different to having a sick note for a different reason. No-one would question it if you were recovering from glandular fever or something and needed rest and reduced hours.

Hang in there and glad baby doing fine.

I suppose you are thinking about what to do when the baby comes? Will you go back to work? Any chance of part-time?

SB2

 

[gpjapan]

Hi, my employer called me and my team and said he plans to reduce our salary as he feels he is paying above market value. Out of 4 of us- as per the clauses he stated only me and my other female colleague would be affected. When I said that I would not agree to a decrease in salary, he is threatining to fire me. I have been working for 1.5 years and served my pregnancy notice as well. It was very obvious he does not want to pay my maternity pay. I work in a sales job and has suddenly increased the targets to an unreasonable number. He is not able to cite anything on my performace so he is picking on me for things like- 10 mins late or joking with a colleague during office hours.
How would you deal with a boss who is stressing you so that you resign?

 

[lesliefu]

Q: What is pregnancy discrimination?

A: The following acts are considered pregnancy discrimination: -- an employer refuses to hire a pregnant woman;
-- an employer dismisses or transfers a pregnant woman into a lower paying position;
-- an employer dismisses a woman on her return from maternity leave.

this is what I found on the equal opportunities commission website....might have more information that is useful for you...

Sex Discrimination Ordinance and I

 

[boo boo]

hang in there

hihi,

If one is able to produce results and show for it, that is perhaps the best defensive strategy. If your employer is close-minded and assumes that being pregnant means non-performance, then you would need to "show for" otherwise even if you decide to sue, you would not have an evidential hearing at the courts.

hang in there ! :bighug

 

[lisa88]

Hi coolgirl

Sorry to hear about your work situation. Sounds like your employer is picking on women in the sales team and that is outright sex discrimination, not just pregnancy discrimination. Making life unpleasant for you at work is called "constructive dismissal" and is legally recognized as similar to unfair dismissal, however you must have strong proof.

In practical terms, you should keep a good diary of all the incidents that you are describing, of your boss picking on you: dates times, who said what. If your company has a practice of job reviews once or twice a year, that should be a good time to raise the problems that you are encountering. Outside of the job reviews, try to find the right time and place to speak to your boss about his behaviour. If this is not possible, you should keep documenting all the incidents to build up a strong case of unfair dismissal and discrimination. Obviously you do not want to fight the company now, but keep this for later, if you find yourself having to defend your position.

It is illegal for the company to fire you whilst you are pregnant. They must compensate you all the way up to the time you return from maternity leave. Not only that, it is a criminal offence for your company and directors to fire you, except for gross negligence. If you have been recognized as a good employee prior to your pregnancy, that is a plus point for you.

Also call up the EOC hotline and try to talk to an employment lawyer for suggestions on how to cope with your problems.

Good luck.