Domestic Helper Concerns (sorry for the long post!)

[lesliefu]

From what I've read it seems like she's just plain tired. Your baby is most likely not sleeping through yet and until she does should perhaps room with you. The reason is so your helper can get a good nights sleep, to be ready to cae for the baby and do the household properly in the day time. Theoretically babies can be trained to sleep through by 4mths, so you arent a long way from that!

What are your priorities? You need to set them out for yourself cause your helper can't do everything...though of course it seems like you and hubby are doing some things. The point is, if the baby sleeps in your room you can see him for longer, and do the 11pm feeing, and your helper can be asleep by 9pm. It's not about the length of sleep but the quality of sleep you get...some people only need 5hrs of "good" sleep to feel refreshed.

As for the lying...I've heard the same...observe to see how long it lasts, it can be a problem if the safety of your child is at risk.

 

[GTI]

Wow, thank you for all the replies and great advice.

A few things. First of all, me and my wife (haha, I'm the husband), have made it clear that we want to treat the helper good. We were understanding in that this is a place that's new and she needs to accustom to it with some time. We have never gave her a rude, let alone intimidating look to her up until yesterday when she left the key and lied about it. I can't outright accuse her for lying but I wanted to make sure she knew I was't blindly buying to what she said. gave her a disappointed look. We sat down to tell her what we think of her and we made sure to praise her as well as tell her what needs to be worked on. In which she tells me she never had an incident where she did not understand what we said plus that she has enough sleep and does't want more. We've even asked if she's satisfied with the food and that if it were enough. All in all, we ask her if she's happy and she tells us that we're very pleasant ppl and that we're fair.

Being over-worked? My wife was on mat. Leave plus annual leave for a couple weeks (baby came out weeks early thus 10 weeks mat. Leave) and she tells me that she does all her work in a couple hours and she literally asks her if she can do more. Great attitude! But the fact is she's killing herself and that its not sustainable, causing her to make tons of mistakes. I know she wants to show her value during this imaginary probation period, but we'd rather she keep the baby safe.

On the sleep issue. She has plenty of time to wind down. She supposinglyly gets 8 to 11pm to do so. She chooses to sleep which makes us not able to see our baby. Take 11pm shift? the maid would wake up from the baby's cry and from us putting the baby back to sleep anyways. It would be hard for me to go in her room while she's asleep me being a guy. Wake up at night. Sure, we keep a record and see that he wakes up at 3 and 6:30am. Us taking that shift? I'm not sure if being sleep deprived going to work is a great idea. She gets to nap in the day for literally 3 hours. If I get 3 hours of power nap each day at work, I would't mind. Us keeping our jobs is equally important in all honesty!

So what our original plan was to SHIFT the maid's bodyclock and circadiam by 3 hours meaning she starts sleeping at 11:30pm and wake up at 9am. That way she doesn't start getting sleepy at 8pm and instead gets wind-down time on her own each night. Plus we get to spend time with our baby after our dinner till 11pm. We told her twice and she keeps telling me 'it's ok sir.' It came to the point where she insisted she has enough sleep and that she just is plainly naturally forgetful...

My wife and I agree that she's doing a great job with the baby and we agree, it's what matters most. But overall it's mega frustrating how we are constantly asking the maid to help us so that we can help her. She has done nothing but give us strange looks like we should not treat her too well and that her opinion is of no importance. She chooses to do more than requested and in turn makes mistakes which wrote don't prefer.


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[GTI]

It's very rare for a three month old to sleep through the night. Who is sitting up with the baby when he or she wakes up at 2 am and 5 am (or more often, as the case may be)? I know my nine month old still gets up at least twice during the night; when she was three months, it was every two hours, round the clock. I was exhausted all day long and very forgetful too. Just because YOU are getting in lots of sleep at night doesn't mean SHE is, if she is the one caring for the baby at night too.

You really should be the one to care for your own child when you are home and not let the helper do it. Not only will that give her a better rest, it will also allow your child to bond with you. Do you want to be one of those mothers who complains their children prefer their helper over you or cry if you hold them and only the helper will soothe them? babies bond with the person who cares for them, and that person should be YOU at night if if are working during the day and can't be there. Take back that 11 pm feeding (and there are probably 2 am and 5 am feedings too that you don't even know about as you sleep carefree)!

As for "lying", I wouldn't call it lying as much as a cultural difference. My Filipino helper always says "yes ma'am, I understand" even when she doesn't understand a thing. It's her culture. You can call it lying if you like, but you will need lots of patience with this problem, because it probably won't go away. I have had my helper since April and she still hasn't learned how to ask a question or be up front when she doesn't understand. Everyone tells me this is typical among Filipinos, so I just have to keep telling her I want her to questions me, I want her to tell me she doesn't understand, I want to help her but I need to know what help she needs from me.

The advice from the agency we went through was not to even consider firing a helper for at least 2-3 months, because it takes that long for them to adjust to their new job in your family. Your helper has only been there a few weeks; just be patient and ask her what YOU can do to help HER and try to work things out so she can get more rest and serve you better.

I'm sorry, but you come off giving me the impression that we're terrible parents who are oblivious. I know this is a supportive community and I woukd love to keep it as such. But just to clarify.

" Just because YOU are getting in lots of sleep at night doesn't mean SHE is, if she is the one caring for the baby at night too."

I've made it clear in the post that I believe she is lacking sleep and that WE made her sleep and nap when SHE wants. I dare say that, alone shows we understand the hardships of taking care of our baby, no? Her response was that she will over ride us by waking up at 6:30 and drinking a lot of coffee.

" (and there are probably 2 am and 5 am feedings too that you don't even know about as you sleep carefree)! "

Wrong keep record on a notepad in which we check everyday. But mostly, you seriously think we don't know? Our son is 3 months old and I wrote that our maid has been with us for 3 weeks. That leaves more than 2 months without a maid if you do the math. You seriously think that within these 2 months we've chosen to just sleep through the night being oblivious on our baby's night feeding habits?

I know you probably mean good, but you're ranting at us as being ignorant parents. You're coming off as being presumptious and ignorant of what's going on. If we seriously did't care so much, I'd probably not have chosen to write such a detailed account online.

FYI before the maid came, me and my wife have taken every minute we could with the baby. I would't say it's terrible for us to want some free time now that my wife has to work and come back home at 7-7:30pm.

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[mummymoo]

GTI with the extra information you have posted it seems as if your helper really has a long day. Probably its more accurate to say she finishes her day at 11.30pm and starts at 6.30am which is long by anyone's estimation.

Why do I say this? Well firstly, you yourself have said that you want to spend time with the baby between 8-11pm and then she does the feed, well she may be buzzing about doing little things for you during this period or just being 'alert' i.e. half listening to see if there are things she can do or you need her to do during this time because she does seem anxious to please. I know my helper initially did this as she had been trained to be on call on tap. So she's not really off during this time.

Secondly, does she really finish at 8pm as your wife gets in at 7-7.30pm and then you guys need to cook then eat and THEN the helper can clear up. The time frame seems a bit tight for a 8pm finish.

Thirdly, how can the helper get unbroken sleep until 9am when your son wakes up at 3am and 6.30am?

Finally, yes when your wife was on maternity leave the helper could be efficient and finish all her chores with several hours and ask for more to do, but presumably there was a spare pair of hands (your wife's) there to look after the baby, cuddles, changing the nappy, putting him down/getting him up, settling him( this can take a long long time at times!) whilst the helper could efficiently whizz around and do the household chores. But now she has no help during the day and when the baby naps is the ONLY time she has to do the chores, so I don't know she is able to nap for the 3 hours you think she is. I had my first baby overseas with no help during the day (I had family help at night from hubby and family after they finished work), and I can tell you there is very little napping to be done when they are this young, mainly when I slept it was because I CRASHED in exhaustion and if I wasn't exhausted I would do household chores when my LO napped.

I know you are trying to be understanding and fair to this helper and she does seem a good sort but I do think her working day is too long and you overestimate how much sleep she's able to get. I get that you both did the grunt work before the helper came along but I am equally sure that as the moms and dads, if your wife was having an exhausting day, she'd be like, I won't wash the dishes, or mop the floors, do the laundry or wash the car today or even this week. Also you'd pitch in and help her do domestic chores. The helper has no such luxury. Your helper seems like one of the good ones so I hope you all can work something out.

PS In terms of giving the helpers dirty looks or calling them out about their lies, I personally have no problems with that. I'm a very upfront person, and I think it works out better than beating about the bush, well anyway its worked out for me.

 

[laminkins]

It's a tough one. My helper has been with us sincethe baby was born. Kid is now 2 and they have been sharing a room since day 1. Even now, the helper gets woken in the middle night sometimes coz the kid wakes up and wants a cuddle. We used to have a second helper that does everything else that is non kid helper, now we just have the one lived in helper and a part time that comes everyday to do thus household chores, so helper one only does kid related stuff.

Looking after a baby/ toddler is a lot of work. I wouldn't be able to do that full time and do household chores (such as washing the car). Sharing a room with a baby means you get poor sleep. I personally think you are overloading your helper. Don't forget, we really only pay them 4-5k a month, how can we expect they can do more than we can?

 

[genkimom]

Sorry, GTI, I didn't mean to sound like I'm bullying you, but it upsets me when people expect their help to be everything and do everything and get upset when they make mistakes, especially when the help has apparently taken over complete care of their newborns. Your wife returns home around 7:30-ish and the helper "sleeps" at 8? Really? And remember when you did all the babycare a few weeks ago? Did you get much sleep? Did all the chores get done perfectly? Did you forget a few things? Really, she's human, for goodness sake. I agree with the above poster that the reality is she is probably not able to sleep for three hours during the day, nor is she able to sleep any earlier than 11:30 and her sleep is probably interrupted at least once; she's exhausted. If she were your wife, you would be very understanding and helpful but because she's your helpful it's somehow different. That bothers me to no end.

It also bothers me when, a year down the road, when babies get to the stage where they cling on to their primary caregiver and refuse to be held by anyone else, they choose the helper and refuse to be held or cuddled by their parents and they get all upset and whine on this forum and others "Why does my child cry when I try to hold her? How come only the helper can soothe her?" And it's always because, they have chosen their careers over child care. You said it's more important that you and your wife get good rest so you can do your jobs properly. your current schedule means that you get very few opportunities to play with your child and care for them.

Your baby has already forgotten you were his caregiver three weeks ago. They live in the present. Bonding comes from what care you provide each and every day.A half and hour here and there, and a Sunday a week will not be enough to make you a parent in the eyes of your child!

I'm not saying this to be a troll or a bully. I'm giving you a warning because I think bonding with parents is incredibly important and I am always saddened when children are more bonded to their helpers, who are transient and could leave the family any time, than their parents. It's very sad and this is the path you are going down, so it's better to think about it now and make changes to your arrangement while it's still new and no harm's done.

Good luck to you and your new family! It's all very new to you, I understand, and you are doing your best. And so is your helper. Things will settle down once she gets used to her environment and things become more routine for her. Just be patient.

 

[GTI]

I agree that we need to spend more time with the baby for him to understand that we are his parents. It would hurt us to see him cry under our arms.

Anyways, on the issue of over working the maid. You have to take my word or else this will go to where. She was the one claiming time and again she's getting 3 hours of nap herself, thus not needing to sleep more. I can't accuse her for lying. I ask her if she's over-worked and lacking sleep and she tells me she's not and wants to wake up at 6:30am. Heck, when my wife was at home, she requested for more work!

Anyways, I guess you're all missing the point. It's not a matter of us as owners forcing work down her throat and lacking her work non-stop. The issue here is an adult who is requesting less sleep, more work than we thought is possible, and finally being able to do them, albeit sprinkled with critical mistakes that could cause our baby harm.

Its not too big of a deal cause she's been error-free for the past 3 days. She's stepped up her game!

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[Gracey]

That is very reasonable. They are pretty close to the hours our own helper works.
And, even from your first posting, it was obvious that you are not trying to mis-use her. And you concerns are legitimate. You aren't one of those employers who lose it because a shirt was ironed wrong. She is doing things that home that could risk fire, theft or injury.

Her request that she go to bed early with the baby is unreasonable. She's not being overworked. And the baby's schedule is up to the parents to decide, not the hired help!

Good luck with your situation.

 

[GTI]

Thanks gracey. I was losing hope on this thread, as I felt like I was being stereo-typed from the beginning.

But just some food for thought and give some perspective. The average owner of maids in Hong Kong probably have the maid go through more. they simply can't house or afford to employ two maids. We see maids strapping babies while they go out for grocery or wet market shopping. The average maid has to cook for their owners as well, let alone the stewing and slow-cooking/infusion of soup from morning till night. So, I truly do not believe we have in anyway mistreated her.

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[carang]

You may not want to refer to yourself as an owner....ratger as an employer.

That might be part of the misunderstandings you are having.......

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